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From: salgud on 10 Aug 2010 13:49
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 04:14:31 -0400, Davoud wrote:

> Davoud:
>>> Bzzzzt! Wrong answer. There are acceptable substitutes such as
>>> OpenOffice for those who work independently and who do not require full
>>> compatibility with others in their circle who are using Microsoft
>>> Office.
>
> isw:
>> Make the incompatibility the problem of the "Office" users: "Sorry,
>> Charlie, but I can't read your file. You'll have to provide it in some
>> *non-proprietary* format; try PDF."
>
> Really? Seriously? A freshman is going to march into a university (or a
> community college or a trade school or OJT at McDonalds) on day 1 and
> announce "OK, this place is dumping MS Office *today* ; from now on
> it'll be Open Office in order to be compatible with me."
>
> On day 2 s/he will be seeking employment in lawn care--in a position
> where the technology comes from Briggs & Stratton rather than a
> computer company.
>
> Davoud

Exactly!
From: salgud on 10 Aug 2010 13:50
On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 17:24:43 -0400, Wes Groleau wrote:

> On 08-09-2010 13:39, isw wrote:
>> Kurt Ullman<kurtullman(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Is there a free, shareware, or cheap program out there that mimics
>>> Office? My kid needs Office for school, but would prefer to not spend
>>> the money if she can find something compatible.
>>
>> Complain to the school. They should not be requiring students to spend
>> hundreds of dollars for proprietary software when there are perfectly
>> acceptable non-proprietary substitutes such as OpenOffice.
>
> For that matter, they should not be requiring students to do anything
> that costs money--like buy a computer. When I taught Spanish, it was
> an eye-opener for me that half of my students had no computer at home.
> And this was not 1960, it was 2001.

While you're at it, tell them to stop charging this ridiculously expensive
thing called "tuition".
From: isw on 10 Aug 2010 13:52
In article <vilain-C4BA9F.23571909082010(a)news.individual.net>,
Michael Vilain <vilain(a)NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> In article <isw-1B7AEE.22282409082010@[216.168.3.50]>,
> isw <isw(a)witzend.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <090820101615408571%star(a)sky.net>, Davoud <star(a)sky.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > isw:
> > >
> > > > Complain to the school. They should not be requiring students to spend
> > > > hundreds of dollars for proprietary software
> > >
> > > $109.
> > >
> > >
> > > > when there are perfectly
> > > > acceptable non-proprietary substitutes such as OpenOffice.
> > >
> > > Bzzzzt! Wrong answer. There are acceptable substitutes such as
> > > OpenOffice for those who work independently and who do not require full
> > > compatibility with others in their circle who are using Microsoft
> > > Office.
> >
> > Make the incompatibility the problem of the "Office" users: "Sorry,
> > Charlie, but I can't read your file. You'll have to provide it in some
> > *non-proprietary* format; try PDF."
> >
> > Isaac
>
> I don't think students get to dictate what formats in which their
> homework assignments are accepted.

The discussion started out with the claim that "Word" was capable of
creating documents that e.g. OpenOffice could not handle. That elicited
my comment about people who produce documents in proprietary formats. To
be fair, many of those folks are so "Windows inbred" that they simply do
not know that the documents are unreadable by other apps. They need to
be educated.

That is very different from the situation you are now describing. O-O
can most certainly output documents in "Word" format. True, those
documents may not have some fancy (unnecessary?) foofery that "Word" can
provide, but they'll be perfectly acceptable to "Word" users.

Again, what I object to is a requirement that somebody *must* spend
hundreds of dollars simply to read documents produced by others.

Isaac
From: isw on 10 Aug 2010 14:00
In article <090820102240449802%nospam(a)nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nospam(a)nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <isw-1B7AEE.22282409082010@[216.168.3.50]>, isw
> <isw(a)witzend.com> wrote:
>
> > > > when there are perfectly
> > > > acceptable non-proprietary substitutes such as OpenOffice.
> > >
> > > Bzzzzt! Wrong answer. There are acceptable substitutes such as
> > > OpenOffice for those who work independently and who do not require full
> > > compatibility with others in their circle who are using Microsoft
> > > Office.
> >
> > Make the incompatibility the problem of the "Office" users: "Sorry,
> > Charlie, but I can't read your file. You'll have to provide it in some
> > *non-proprietary* format; try PDF."
>
> obviously, you've never actually tried that strategy. typically, it
> does not work.

Except that I have, in business situations, and it does. There have been
instances in the not-too-distant past when documents created by newer
versions of "Word" were not readable by older versions of the same
program. I suspect it was a "clever" strategy by Micro$oft to get
businesses to buy a bunch of "updates" to a program which was already
doing everything the users needed or wanted. One person in a high-budget
department (marketing, say), gets a new version with their new PC, and
that can force everybody else in the company to have to upgrade too.
Stupid, and expensive.

Having people produce their documents in a down-rev format sort of takes
the wind out of "MY version is newer than yours. Nyah, nyah, nyah" but
it can save a mid-sized corporation thousands of dollars.

Isaac
From: Tom Stiller on 10 Aug 2010 14:19
In article <vilain-C4BA9F.23571909082010(a)news.individual.net>,
Michael Vilain <vilain(a)NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> In article <isw-1B7AEE.22282409082010@[216.168.3.50]>,
> isw <isw(a)witzend.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <090820101615408571%star(a)sky.net>, Davoud <star(a)sky.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > isw:
> > >
> > > > Complain to the school. They should not be requiring students to spend
> > > > hundreds of dollars for proprietary software
> > >
> > > $109.
> > >
> > >
> > > > when there are perfectly
> > > > acceptable non-proprietary substitutes such as OpenOffice.
> > >
> > > Bzzzzt! Wrong answer. There are acceptable substitutes such as
> > > OpenOffice for those who work independently and who do not require full
> > > compatibility with others in their circle who are using Microsoft
> > > Office.
> >
> > Make the incompatibility the problem of the "Office" users: "Sorry,
> > Charlie, but I can't read your file. You'll have to provide it in some
> > *non-proprietary* format; try PDF."
> >
> > Isaac
>
> I don't think students get to dictate what formats in which their
> homework assignments are accepted. Best case, the kid complains to the
> dean who says "No one else has a problem with Word documents. Why do
> you have a problem with this?" The only way there's any sort of
> leverage over this is if the student's parent is a famous alum who
> donated lots of money to the school.

Or a member of the local school board.


> If the OP is paying $40K/year to send a kid to college and can't pop an
> additional $100 for Office, there are deeper problems here. Buy Office
> and send your kid to college right. Friken cheapskate.

--
Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF
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