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From: Deadly Dirk on 8 Jun 2010 22:45
On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 18:52:44 -0700, alex23 wrote:


> Unless you have a clear need for 3rd party libraries that currently
> don't have 3.x versions, starting with Python 3 isn't a bad idea.

From what I see, most of the people are still using Python 2.x. My reason
for learning Python is the fact that my CTO decided that the new company
standard for scripting languages will be Python. I've been using Perl for
15 years and it was completely adequate but, apparently, Perl is no
longer in. I am afraid that Python3 is like Perl 6, the one with Parrot:
everybody is reading articles about it but nobody is using it.



--
I don't think, therefore I am not.
From: alex23 on 8 Jun 2010 23:47
Deadly Dirk <d...(a)pfln.invalid> wrote:
> From what I see, most of the people are still using Python 2.x. My reason
> for learning Python is the fact that my CTO decided that the new company
> standard for scripting languages will be Python. I've been using Perl for
> 15 years and it was completely adequate but, apparently, Perl is no
> longer in. I am afraid that Python3 is like Perl 6, the one with Parrot:
> everybody is reading articles about it but nobody is using it.

If you feel that way, then the Quick Python Book 2E is not the book
from which you want to learn Python.

I'm not sure, though, why you feel capable of judging Python 3's
success when you were unable to recognise the book's scope from the
cover, the back text and the introduction. But please, feel free to
use your psychic abilities to tell us what we are and are not using.
From: MRAB on 8 Jun 2010 23:04
Deadly Dirk wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 18:52:44 -0700, alex23 wrote:
>
>
>> Unless you have a clear need for 3rd party libraries that currently
>> don't have 3.x versions, starting with Python 3 isn't a bad idea.
>
>>From what I see, most of the people are still using Python 2.x. My reason
> for learning Python is the fact that my CTO decided that the new company
> standard for scripting languages will be Python. I've been using Perl for
> 15 years and it was completely adequate but, apparently, Perl is no
> longer in. I am afraid that Python3 is like Perl 6, the one with Parrot:
> everybody is reading articles about it but nobody is using it.
>
I won't say nobody. I'm using it, for example. :-)

The differences between Python 2 and Python 3 are nothing like those
between Perl 5 and Perl 6; it's more of a tidy-up than a redesign.
From: Steven D'Aprano on 9 Jun 2010 02:02
On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 02:45:36 +0000, Deadly Dirk wrote:

> On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 18:52:44 -0700, alex23 wrote:
>
>
>> Unless you have a clear need for 3rd party libraries that currently
>> don't have 3.x versions, starting with Python 3 isn't a bad idea.
>
> From what I see, most of the people are still using Python 2.x.


Yes, that is correct, most people are still on 2.x. However, many people
are dipping their toe into 3.x by using both, or even exclusively on 3.
"Most" is not "all".

Remember than many deployed systems only have Python 2.6, 2.5 or even 2.4
as standard, and until the vendors start shipping 3.x as standard, many
people will be stuck using 2.x even if they want to upgrade.


> My reason for learning Python is the fact that my CTO decided that the
> new company standard for scripting languages will be Python.

And what version of Python will you be using?


> I've been using
> Perl for 15 years and it was completely adequate but, apparently, Perl
> is no longer in.

Yes, being pushed out of a 15 year comfort zone is painful. Good luck!


> I am afraid that Python3 is like Perl 6, the one with
> Parrot: everybody is reading articles about it but nobody is using it.

Python 3 is actually shipping. While it is a backwards-incompatible
change from Python 2, it is an incremental change and not a complete re-
write. Large amounts of Python 2.x code will Just Work in Python 3, and
even larger amounts can be automatically converted using the 2to3 tool.
Very little needs to be re-written by hand. Most of the changes in Python
3 are additions, not subtractions. As the What's New says:

"you'll find that Python really hasn't changed all that much – by and
large, we're mostly fixing well-known annoyances and warts, and removing
a lot of old cruft."

http://docs.python.org/release/3.0.1/whatsnew/3.0.html

People tend to fixate on things from 2.x that changes, but 3.x also
introduces many new features, like annotations, keyword-only arguments,
nonlocal, dict and set comprehensions, and ordered dicts.


The two biggest roadblocks for Python3.x use are:

* distributions are conservative and are still shipping older versions of
Python;

* while some web frameworks do support Python 3.x, some important 3rd
party libraries still don't (e.g. PIL, numpy).

If you're not using those libraries, or stuck on an old conservative
server, there's absolutely no reason not to start using Python 3.1.



--
Steven
From: Jorgen Grahn on 9 Jun 2010 07:35
On Wed, 2010-06-09, Deadly Dirk wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 18:52:44 -0700, alex23 wrote:
>
>
>> Unless you have a clear need for 3rd party libraries that currently
>> don't have 3.x versions, starting with Python 3 isn't a bad idea.

But see below.

> From what I see, most of the people are still using Python 2.x. My reason
> for learning Python is the fact that my CTO decided that the new company
> standard for scripting languages will be Python.

Not a bad choice.

> I've been using Perl for
> 15 years and it was completely adequate but, apparently, Perl is no
> longer in.

I hope your CTO still lets you use Perl for the things Perl does
better (like quickly and elegantly parse huge text files, and various
one-liners). For many other tasks, I think you will quickly find
Python superior.

> I am afraid that Python3 is like Perl 6, the one with Parrot:
> everybody is reading articles about it but nobody is using it.

It seemed like that for a year or two (when people regularly called it
"Python 3000"). Now it's in use -- although perhaps not so much as you
would think when you read comp.lang.python.

I am still perfectly happy with Python 2.4 and 2.5. These are the
versions which are installed by default in modern, recent Linux
distributions. I bet it will be years before Python 3 replaces them.

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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