Wherefore Art Thou, Little Higgsy?
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From: Robert L. Oldershaw on 27 Jul 2010 11:58 Oh dear, "high-energy" physicists cannot seem to find another piece of their Ptolemaic puzzle. Before it was, ta-da, the mythical "magnetic monopoles". TOTAL NO SHOW. And of course there was the, ta-da, mythical "free quarks". TOTAL NO SHOW. Now after searching high and low all over the barnyard, the mythical "Higgsy pig" is nowhere to be found. Well maybe Higgsy pig is hiding under the, ahhh, mud in the pig sty. See: http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=3073#comments , or search on "Higgs Bozo". An interesting question is whether the devotees of the Substandard Model would ever dare to question the basic assumptions of their faith. Or is the search for the mythical particles an endless fool's errand? Would they ever consider the infinitely simpler concept of discrete self-similar scaling for gravitation? Probably not, since it is a scientifically testable paradigm, and would reqiure them to question their faith. We have seen no evidence for a willngness to do that in the last 75 years. I'll bet that with many billions of $, and 100s of careers, sunk into the fool's errand, someone at CERN will have an unscheduled lower intestinal tract event and the resulting vibrations will be called "the unmistakable signature of the Higgsy pig snorting through one of the detectors, with exactly the frequency of snorting we predicted". Another Grand Victory for our intrepid Ptolemaic wizards. RLO www.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw
From: PD on 27 Jul 2010 15:07 On Jul 27, 10:58 am, "Robert L. Oldershaw" <rlolders...(a)amherst.edu> wrote: > Oh dear, "high-energy" physicists cannot seem to find another piece of > their Ptolemaic puzzle. > > Before it was, ta-da, the mythical "magnetic monopoles". TOTAL NO > SHOW. > > And of course there was the, ta-da, mythical "free quarks". TOTAL NO > SHOW. > > Now after searching high and low all over the barnyard, the mythical > "Higgsy pig" is nowhere to be found. Well maybe Higgsy pig is hiding > under the, ahhh, mud in the pig sty. > > See:http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=3073#comments, > or search on "Higgs Bozo". > > An interesting question is whether the devotees of the Substandard > Model would ever dare to question the basic assumptions of their > faith. Or is the search for the mythical particles an endless fool's > errand? > > Would they ever consider the infinitely simpler concept of discrete > self-similar scaling for gravitation? Probably not, since it is a > scientifically testable paradigm, and would reqiure them to question > their faith. We have seen no evidence for a willngness to do that in > the last 75 years. > > I'll bet that with many billions of $, and 100s of careers, sunk into > the fool's errand, someone at CERN will have an unscheduled lower > intestinal tract event and the resulting vibrations will be called > "the unmistakable signature of the Higgsy pig snorting through one of > the detectors, with exactly the frequency of snorting we predicted". > > Another Grand Victory for our intrepid Ptolemaic wizards. > > RLOwww.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw Let's get a couple things corrected for the record. 1. The current laws of electrodynamics do not predict a magnetic monopole. Testing the current laws is of interest, and the customary way to test them is to ask what would happen if they were wrong. One implication of the laws being wrong would be the appearance of a magnetic monopole. This is scientifically interesting to see if the laws are wrong. No magnetic monopole has been found to date, giving credence that the current laws of electrodynamics are not wrong. 2. The current laws of chromodynamics do not predict a free quark. Testing the current laws is of interest, and the customary way to test them is to ask what would happen if they were wrong. One implication of the laws being wrong would be the appearance of a free quark. This is scientifically interesting to see if the laws are wrong. No free quark has been found to date, giving credence that the current laws of chromodynamics are not wrong. 3. The Higgs boson has NOT been searched for all over the barnyard. In fact, the recent results show that it has been searched for only over about 25% of the barnyard. In particular, if you actually READ the announcement about the search, you'd see that the range from 158-175 GeV has been looked at and excluded. Heck, don't bother with words if pictures work better for you: http://www.fnal.gov/pub/presspass/images/higgs-20100726/TevatronHiggsLimitsJuly2010_mr.jpg What you've foamed about is tantamount to watching somebody look for something that is in one of 50 boxes in the attic, and after they've looked through 12 boxes you crow, "See? I TOLD you it's not up here!" Now, as far as your general complaint about how money is spent, you say that investment is not being put into exploration that challenges the status quo. I just pointed out to you that searches for free quarks and for magnetic monopoles ARE searches that challenge the status quo. What you are REALLY whining about is wanting funding for YOUR challenge to the status quo. You have the same vehicles as everyone else. Develop it into a theory that makes some definite predictions and publish it. Or write a grant proposal to fund an experiment. Recruit collaborators.
From: eric gisse on 27 Jul 2010 08:17 Robert L. Oldershaw wrote: > > Oh dear, "high-energy" physicists cannot seem to find another piece of > their Ptolemaic puzzle. > > Before it was, ta-da, the mythical "magnetic monopoles". TOTAL NO > SHOW. No aspect of modern physics predicts magnetic monopoles. Stop making things up. > > And of course there was the, ta-da, mythical "free quarks". TOTAL NO > SHOW. QCD does not predict free quarks. Stop making things up. > > Now after searching high and low all over the barnyard, the mythical > "Higgsy pig" is nowhere to be found. Well maybe Higgsy pig is hiding > under the, ahhh, mud in the pig sty. > > See: http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=3073#comments , > or search on "Higgs Bozo". > > An interesting question is whether the devotees of the Substandard > Model would ever dare to question the basic assumptions of their > faith. Or is the search for the mythical particles an endless fool's > errand? Continued childish behavior towards a scientific theory noted. Grow the hell up, Robert. [snip rest]
From: BURT on 27 Jul 2010 17:42 On Jul 27, 5:17 am, eric gisse <jowr.pi.nos...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Robert L. Oldershaw wrote: > > > Oh dear, "high-energy" physicists cannot seem to find another piece of > > their Ptolemaic puzzle. > > > Before it was, ta-da, the mythical "magnetic monopoles". TOTAL NO > > SHOW. > > No aspect of modern physics predicts magnetic monopoles. > > Stop making things up. > > > > > And of course there was the, ta-da, mythical "free quarks". TOTAL NO > > SHOW. > > QCD does not predict free quarks. > > Stop making things up. > > > > > Now after searching high and low all over the barnyard, the mythical > > "Higgsy pig" is nowhere to be found. Well maybe Higgsy pig is hiding > > under the, ahhh, mud in the pig sty. > > > See:http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=3073#comments, > > or search on "Higgs Bozo". > > > An interesting question is whether the devotees of the Substandard > > Model would ever dare to question the basic assumptions of their > > faith. Or is the search for the mythical particles an endless fool's > > errand? > > Continued childish behavior towards a scientific theory noted. Grow the hell > up, Robert. > > [snip rest] The Higgs particle is science's excuse for a creation of mass that can only come from God at the beginning of time. God does not need a phenomenon to create. Mitch Raemsch
From: Thomas Heger on 27 Jul 2010 20:13
Robert L. Oldershaw schrieb: > Oh dear, "high-energy" physicists cannot seem to find another piece of > their Ptolemaic puzzle. > > Before it was, ta-da, the mythical "magnetic monopoles". TOTAL NO > SHOW. > > And of course there was the, ta-da, mythical "free quarks". TOTAL NO > SHOW. > > Now after searching high and low all over the barnyard, the mythical > "Higgsy pig" is nowhere to be found. Well maybe Higgsy pig is hiding > under the, ahhh, mud in the pig sty. > > See: http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=3073#comments , > or search on "Higgs Bozo". > > An interesting question is whether the devotees of the Substandard > Model would ever dare to question the basic assumptions of their > faith. Or is the search for the mythical particles an endless fool's > errand? > > Would they ever consider the infinitely simpler concept of discrete > self-similar scaling for gravitation? Probably not, since it is a > scientifically testable paradigm, and would reqiure them to question > their faith. We have seen no evidence for a willngness to do that in > the last 75 years. > > I'll bet that with many billions of $, and 100s of careers, sunk into > the fool's errand, someone at CERN will have an unscheduled lower > intestinal tract event and the resulting vibrations will be called > "the unmistakable signature of the Higgsy pig snorting through one of > the detectors, with exactly the frequency of snorting we predicted". > > Another Grand Victory for our intrepid Ptolemaic wizards. > To me the LHC is a potentially dangerous device. Not mainly, but the way it is used makes it a large potential thread to its environment. If they successfully create an 'energy-bubble', that could dominate the environment around, than they have something, they certainly do not want. So they should rethink their doings and observe the results they get. To my understanding it would be enough, to let the experiment kind of 'cool down' from time to time and the bubble disappear. Than I agree to your point of view in general. I personally think, the entire particle concept is wrong. This is why they will not find the Higgs or single quarks. Actually not entirely wrong, but particles are not 'real'. TH TH > |