fixed width + remainder
in [CSS]
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From: David Stone on 18 May 2010 10:54 In article <dorayme-E17EAF.09565118052010(a)news.albasani.net>, dorayme <dorayme(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > In article <hsrvdr$bkn$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, > "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous(a)example.invalid> wrote: > > > Jeff Thies wrote: > > > > > Lets say we have a fixed width navigation column of 200px. > > > > Fine, until those of your visitors with less than perfect eyesight > > increase their text size... then it falls apart. > > > At 200px and many links that have words are not very long > (allowing wrap), it rarely falls apart... A very far cry from > your implication of what actually happens for people with mere > less than perfect eyesight. I use em units for these things, rather than px. The practical result is that the navigation area shrinks and expands with changes in font size, so I don't have to worry about it. I will sometimes set min-width and/or max-width so that line lengths don't get too far out of hand in very wide windows with very small fonts, but not always - I figure users should know enough to at least adjust the width of their own browser window! This is one of the advantages of coding a non-commercial site for a very specific audience!
From: dorayme on 18 May 2010 18:16 In article <no.email-D053F2.10540118052010(a)news1.chem.utoronto.ca>, David Stone <no.email(a)domain.invalid> wrote: > In article <dorayme-E17EAF.09565118052010(a)news.albasani.net>, > dorayme <dorayme(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > In article <hsrvdr$bkn$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, > > "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous(a)example.invalid> wrote: > > > > > Jeff Thies wrote: > > > > > > > Lets say we have a fixed width navigation column of 200px. > > > > > > Fine, until those of your visitors with less than perfect eyesight > > > increase their text size... then it falls apart. > > > > > At 200px and many links that have words are not very long > > (allowing wrap), it rarely falls apart... A very far cry from > > your implication of what actually happens for people with mere > > less than perfect eyesight. > > I use em units for these things, rather than px. Me too quite often, but the downside for people who need very big text is that a navigation column can take up too much space. If you try to guess max width, you are not all that far from that you could have settled for a practical px width like 200 or so. > The practical > result is that the navigation area shrinks and expands with > changes in font size, so I don't have to worry about it. True, but the user might instead though; in that there is less space for the stuff in the non nav area that has a greater practical claim not to be unnecessarily squeezed. Remember, user might not have very wide available screen area. > I will > sometimes set min-width and/or max-width so that line lengths > don't get too far out of hand in very wide windows with very > small fonts, but not always - I figure users should know enough > to at least adjust the width of their own browser window! > This is one of the advantages of coding a non-commercial site > for a very specific audience! -- dorayme
From: GTalbot on 19 May 2010 23:24 On 17 mai, 13:46, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.m...(a)example.invalid> wrote: > Jeff Thies wrote: > > Lets say we have a fixed width navigation column of 200px. > > Fine, until those of your visitors with less than perfect eyesight > increase their text size... then it falls apart. Beauregard, The very first step to execute regarding text size is to set it to 100% (or to medium) for unstyled body text or to not even set it to a value for unstyled body text. Why? When normal body text is undefined as far as font-size, then the browser must use the default font-size as set in the user agent style sheet or use the preference set by the user... which is redefining the default font-size in the user agent style sheet. So, that way, the web author minimizes the causes, the reasons, the needs for the user (regardless of his/her eyesight/ vision) to increase the web page text size in the first place. All this is clearly explained in many good websites. One of them being: Truth & Consequences of web site design by Chris Beal " If you do not specify any font size at all (as on the pages you are reading), text will appear in the default size that was selected by the user. " http://pages.prodigy.net/chris_beall/TC/Font%20size.html There is also The Wrong Size Fonts: Or why not to over-ride the readers font size " it is a good idea to define the body text explicitly as 100% rather than leaving it as default (although this ought to have no effect). " http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/fontsize.html > > How to make the next column take up the remainder? It's easy to wrap > > under (and it wouldn't then be a column), or to specify everything as > > a percent, this is much harder. I have seen it done, but I don't > > remember how. How? > > Study this oft-recommended template.http://matthewjamestaylor.com/blog/ultimate-2-column-left-menu-ems.htm That ultimate-2-column-left-menu-ems.htm webpage tutorial claims that it "works" for IE6 and IE7. I have huge doubts about this. I reported this bug https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=339308 with this testcase http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE7Bugs/CSSColumnarLayoutThatFails1.html precisely because faux column thanks to em was not working as expected when resizing the font, text size in IE6 and IE7. Also, this testpage in IE6 and IE7 has float problems: http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE7Bugs/CSSColumnarLayoutThatFails2.html Generally speaking, IE6 and IE7 have a buggy and unreliable support for em as an unit for font-size: EM text resizing bug: http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE7Bugs/#bug79 regards, Gérard -- Internet Explorer 7 bugs: 185 bugs so far http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE7Bugs/ Internet Explorer 8 bugs: 60 bugs so far http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE8Bugs/
From: Beauregard T. Shagnasty on 20 May 2010 07:05
GTalbot wrote: > "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote: >> Jeff Thies wrote: >>> Lets say we have a fixed width navigation column of 200px. >> >> Fine, until those of your visitors with less than perfect eyesight >> increase their text size... then it falls apart. > > Beauregard, > > The very first step to execute regarding text size is to set it to > 100% (or to medium) for unstyled body text or to not even set it to a > value for unstyled body text. ... Eggzactly. I mention that on this page of mine which I post: http://tekrider.net/html/fontsize.php I too reference the Poley pages there. :-) -- -bts -Four wheels carry the body; two wheels move the soul |