low power chipsets - ideas
in [Hardware]
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From: Keiron on 3 Aug 2010 05:49 Hello all, I'm looking for a motherboard with the AMD 780G chipset as I understand this offers unrivaled features and low power consumption. However, I also understand that this was the case in 2008. Are there significantly better chipsets with this low power:feature ratio now? I'm looking to use it with an AMD Athlon 64 2000+; yep, the 8Watt cpu, so if I can get a 780G somewhere so much the better as anything newer would be overkill .... unless it's an absolute bargin! So comments on 780G, similar and other chipsets, places to purchase a board in the UK. Cheers
From: Paul on 3 Aug 2010 08:15 Keiron wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm looking for a motherboard with the AMD 780G chipset as I understand > this offers unrivaled features and low power consumption. However, I also > understand that this was the case in 2008. Are there significantly better > chipsets with this low power:feature ratio now? I'm looking to use it > with an AMD Athlon 64 2000+; yep, the 8Watt cpu, so if I can get a 780G > somewhere so much the better as anything newer would be overkill .... > unless it's an absolute bargin! > > So comments on 780G, similar and other chipsets, places to purchase a > board in the UK. > > Cheers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_700_chipset_series#Energy_efficiency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_800_chipset_series (table at the bottom) If you look at the numbers, the 780G is still pretty good. The thing is, sometimes, on a silicon die shrink, there is higher DC leakage, and that accounts for some of the power. Also, on newer chips, you might have more high speed interfaces (tons of PCI Express lanes, SATA III and the like), and they might be driving up the power a bit. Or the integrated GPU might be slightly more powerful. There are still a few 780G chipsets around. (The selection isn't that good though, so you might end up with a bad BIOS or a DOA motherboard.) Or, you could try looking for a 785G. There are more motherboards with that chipset, and it isn't much different from the 780G. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007625+600008296&IsNodeId=1&Subcategory=22&srchInDesc=785 There are also mini-itx boards available, but it's pretty hard to compare total power numbers between all of these computing solutions. (Some of the power numbers on this summary page are real, and others are quoted TDP values which are useless to you. For example, I have a TDP 65W processor, and it draws 12W or so at idle. Quoting a TDP, is not a good way to estimate idle power performance.) http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=2 The only real way to do this, is for somebody to sit down, with the same set of PC components, and try one motherboard after another, measuring the power of each, with a standard set of test cases applied. Reading articles, such as the numbers quoted in the Wikipedia article, can be misleading. You don't really know what you're getting, in terms of power performance, until it's too late. So a site that specializes in HTPCs or PCs for cars, might be one place to look, if the site is sufficient technically competent in their evaluations. HTH, Paul
From: Keiron on 3 Aug 2010 09:43 On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 08:15:23 -0400, Paul wrote: > Keiron wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I'm looking for a motherboard with the AMD 780G chipset as I understand >> this offers unrivaled features and low power consumption. However, I >> also understand that this was the case in 2008. Are there significantly >> better chipsets with this low power:feature ratio now? I'm looking to >> use it with an AMD Athlon 64 2000+; yep, the 8Watt cpu, so if I can get >> a 780G somewhere so much the better as anything newer would be overkill >> .... unless it's an absolute bargin! >> >> So comments on 780G, similar and other chipsets, places to purchase a >> board in the UK. >> >> Cheers > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_700_chipset_series#Energy_efficiency > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_800_chipset_series (table at the > bottom) > > If you look at the numbers, the 780G is still pretty good. The thing is, > sometimes, on a silicon die shrink, there is higher DC leakage, and that > accounts for some of the power. Also, on newer chips, you might have > more high speed interfaces (tons of PCI Express lanes, SATA III and the > like), and they might be driving up the power a bit. Or the integrated > GPU might be slightly more powerful. > > There are still a few 780G chipsets around. (The selection isn't that > good though, so you might end up with a bad BIOS or a DOA motherboard.) > Or, you could try looking for a 785G. There are more motherboards with > that chipset, and it isn't much different from the 780G. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007625 +600008296&IsNodeId=1&Subcategory=22&srchInDesc=785 > > There are also mini-itx boards available, but it's pretty hard to > compare total power numbers between all of these computing solutions. > > (Some of the power numbers on this summary page are real, and others are > quoted TDP values which are useless to you. For example, I have a TDP > 65W processor, and it draws 12W or so at idle. Quoting a TDP, is not a > good way to estimate idle power performance.) > > http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=2 > > The only real way to do this, is for somebody to sit down, with the same > set of PC components, and try one motherboard after another, measuring > the power of each, with a standard set of test cases applied. Reading > articles, such as the numbers quoted in the Wikipedia article, can be > misleading. You don't really know what you're getting, in terms of power > performance, until it's too late. So a site that specializes in HTPCs or > PCs for cars, might be one place to look, if the site is sufficient > technically competent in their evaluations. > > HTH, > Paul Hi Paul, Thanks for your reply. In fact when I last posted to this newsgroup about 6 months ago you replied. It seems you're holding this part of usenet together by yourself! I definitely take your point about real world testing to find actual power values but i'm not too concerned just as long it's relatively good. I just liked the review tomshardware gave of 780G a couple years ago which indicated a good power. Having looked at the sources you've provided I don't see any reason not to go for the more freely available 785G. I've looked at the specs of boards of the 780G and 785G and given my pc knowledge stopped at my last build (Duron 1.3 Morgan core) I'm not entirely sure what I'm reading. Is it fair/obvious that the 785G is actually an improvement on the 780G, i.e. there are no obvious bugs? And the HD4200 graphics model/chip is superior to HD3200? (I'd not feel safe assuming based purely on the bigger number!) Thanks
From: Paul on 3 Aug 2010 10:32 Keiron wrote: > On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 08:15:23 -0400, Paul wrote: > >> Keiron wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I'm looking for a motherboard with the AMD 780G chipset as I understand >>> this offers unrivaled features and low power consumption. However, I >>> also understand that this was the case in 2008. Are there significantly >>> better chipsets with this low power:feature ratio now? I'm looking to >>> use it with an AMD Athlon 64 2000+; yep, the 8Watt cpu, so if I can get >>> a 780G somewhere so much the better as anything newer would be overkill >>> .... unless it's an absolute bargin! >>> >>> So comments on 780G, similar and other chipsets, places to purchase a >>> board in the UK. >>> >>> Cheers >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_700_chipset_series#Energy_efficiency >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_800_chipset_series (table at the >> bottom) >> >> If you look at the numbers, the 780G is still pretty good. The thing is, >> sometimes, on a silicon die shrink, there is higher DC leakage, and that >> accounts for some of the power. Also, on newer chips, you might have >> more high speed interfaces (tons of PCI Express lanes, SATA III and the >> like), and they might be driving up the power a bit. Or the integrated >> GPU might be slightly more powerful. >> >> There are still a few 780G chipsets around. (The selection isn't that >> good though, so you might end up with a bad BIOS or a DOA motherboard.) >> Or, you could try looking for a 785G. There are more motherboards with >> that chipset, and it isn't much different from the 780G. >> >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007625 > +600008296&IsNodeId=1&Subcategory=22&srchInDesc=785 >> There are also mini-itx boards available, but it's pretty hard to >> compare total power numbers between all of these computing solutions. >> >> (Some of the power numbers on this summary page are real, and others are >> quoted TDP values which are useless to you. For example, I have a TDP >> 65W processor, and it draws 12W or so at idle. Quoting a TDP, is not a >> good way to estimate idle power performance.) >> >> http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=2 >> >> The only real way to do this, is for somebody to sit down, with the same >> set of PC components, and try one motherboard after another, measuring >> the power of each, with a standard set of test cases applied. Reading >> articles, such as the numbers quoted in the Wikipedia article, can be >> misleading. You don't really know what you're getting, in terms of power >> performance, until it's too late. So a site that specializes in HTPCs or >> PCs for cars, might be one place to look, if the site is sufficient >> technically competent in their evaluations. >> >> HTH, >> Paul > > Hi Paul, > > Thanks for your reply. In fact when I last posted to this newsgroup about > 6 months ago you replied. It seems you're holding this part of usenet > together by yourself! > > I definitely take your point about real world testing to find actual > power values but i'm not too concerned just as long it's relatively good. > I just liked the review tomshardware gave of 780G a couple years ago > which indicated a good power. Having looked at the sources you've > provided I don't see any reason not to go for the more freely available > 785G. I've looked at the specs of boards of the 780G and 785G and given > my pc knowledge stopped at my last build (Duron 1.3 Morgan core) I'm not > entirely sure what I'm reading. Is it fair/obvious that the 785G is > actually an improvement on the 780G, i.e. there are no obvious bugs? And > the HD4200 graphics model/chip is superior to HD3200? (I'd not feel safe > assuming based purely on the bigger number!) > > Thanks "Is it fair/obvious that the 785G is actually an improvement on the 780G, i.e. there are no obvious bugs?" You can try reading the customer reviews, for the motherboards on Newegg. When I provide a link to Newegg products, it's not because I expect you to buy from them. They have pictures with each product, so you can see what comes with the motherboard. The customer reviews tell you whether the motherboard is a good one or not. Since there are more than 20 motherboards using the 785G, once you read the reviews for all the motherboards, you'll have a better idea whether it is the right way to go or not. On this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_700_chipset_series#Energy_efficiency there is one section with issues in it. "Northbridge issues(760G, M770, 780x, M780x, 790GX)" The 785G is not in that list, although that might be an oversight. There are other items in the Wikipedia article, you should also be reading. They included a few KB articles that are hardware related. I'd recommend you keep reading that Wikipedia page. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/982091 Paul
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