the state of the PHP community
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From: Nathan Rixham on 29 Jul 2010 03:41 Larry Garfield wrote: > On Thursday 29 July 2010 02:07:58 am you wrote: > >> Hi Larry, >> >> Thanks for taking the time to reply, a solid insightful one at that - >> kudos +1 for your opensource drupal efforts! >> >> Good of you to mention, and indeed to see, Palinter grasping opensource >> with two hands, this is certainly a very credible approach to business >> which deservedly reaps good rewards; testament to this is Day Software >> (including of course Roy T. Fielding) which it seems is just about to be >> bought by Adobe, a big +1 for this approach; and one I hope to see more of. >> >> With regards drupal development, there is a rather interesting chap >> called St�phane Corlosquet [ http://drupal.org/user/52142 ] who does a >> fair bit of committing and really pushes the semantic web / linked data >> side of drupal - definitely worth keeping tabs on. > > Oh I'm familiar with Scor. I've talked with him before about a project I'm > working on that is using the amorphous, ill-defined beast known as RDF. :-) > > --Larry Garfield Great re scor! RDF's trouble is RDF/XML - it frankly sucks. N3 or Turtle makes everything much clearer to grasp and indeed read, it's really simple at heart yet universally powerful. I'd recommend this little presentation [1] which covers the web from inception through future from TimBL and shows where all the semantic technologies fit in, and the benefits gained. 'tis a very good overall picture imho, recommended on it's own merits not just because it includes rdf in a few slides. [1] http://www.w3.org/2007/Talks/1211-whit-tbl/
From: Nathan Rixham on 29 Jul 2010 04:21 Adam Richardson wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 1:36 AM, Nathan Rixham <nrixham(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I find myself wondering about the state of the PHP community (and related >> community with a PHP focus), so, here's a bunch of questions - feel free to >> answer none to all of them, on list or off, or add more of your own - this >> isn't for anything specific, just out of interest and sure I (and everybody >> who reads the replies) will learn something + doors/options/contacts may >> come of it. The only thing I can guarantee is that I'm genuinely interested >> in every reply and will read every one of them + lookup every tech and link >> mentioned. >> >> in no particular order: >> >> What other languages and web techs do you currently use other than PHP? >> - if you include html or css please include version, if js then preferred >> libs, and whether client or server side. >> > > CSS, Javascript (Jquery, mostly), SVG, F#, C#, Java, Clojure, Scala, C, > Objective C, Groovy On the JS side, just for a radar check, assuming you know of extjs, jqueryui and commonjs? - also have you looked in to node on the server side? Good to see you branching out to other languages - somebody once said a programmer with one language is akin to a joiner with only a hacksaw in his toolbox (though I may have made that up in a spout of subjective validation!). I'm quite interested to know, which of [F#,C#,Scala,Clojure] you'd recommend one learned/invested some time in to - I've been debating for some time internally about which *# language to dive in to, and the Scala vs Clojure decision I find impossible to take! Out of interested, have you seen or tried M or haskell? >> What's your previous language/tech trail? > > > Started with C++ (I hate it!), then moved on to Java and then to PHP and > then to the others. interesting how often Java and PHP get mentioned together, it seems most PHP devs have touched Java at some point recently. >> Are you considering any new languages or techs, and if so which? >> - names / links >> > > Clojure is beautiful. Google Go is intriguing. Scala is sooo powerful > (but worries me in terms of Perl's syntactic obfuscation.) However, PHP is > practical and sufficient for most of my needs. Likewise I find the same re PHP, Go slipped past in a flight of fancy, ECMAScript-262 has my main attention whilst scala vs clojure, see afore mentioned "I can't decide" reference, any pointers welcome. > I've moved away from Object Oriented Programming practices, and only use > typical OOP practices/patterns when the conventions of a project dictate its > use. > > As a programmer, I've fully embraced functional programming (and Aspect > Oriented programming is neat, but I've not used it in a project, yet.) Interesting, I tend to sway between functional, class based OO and prototype OO (with some lessons learned from AOP) - I love functional, but also value the separation of cross cutting concerns one can achieve with full OO - increasingly liking js style prototype OO which is a great mix of the two. >> Is PHP your hobby/interest, primary development language, just learning or? >> > > I use PHP in a plurality of web projects I'm involved with. > > >> How many years have you been using PHP regularly? >> > > 6 > > >> How many years have you been working with web technologies? >> > > 7 > > >> Did you come from a non-web programming background? >> > > Grad school for cognitive psychology (long story) > > >> Is your primary role web developer or designer? >> > > Both (I'm a one-man shop) How do you find it? especially given you work with local clients, do you find 'maintenance' is a killer or does an appropriate 'cms' alleviate much of that? - how many years as a one-man shop if you don't mind me asking? >> Do you tend to work on jobs for geo-local clients, clients in the same >> country, or do you work internationally 'on the web'? >> > > Local clients. > > >> How do you get your projects? do they come to you, word of mouth, do you >> hunt and bid for projects, code call, visit clients, target clients >> individually you think you can help, or? >> - not looking for trade secrets, just to get enough for an overall picture. >> > > Word of mouth most often. > > >> Do you have any frustrations with the PHP community, do you find you want >> to talk shop but can't, or find people to work with but can't, have projects >> in mind you want to do but can't find people to do them with etc? >> > > I very much enjoy working with PHP, and I hope it's able to keep pace with > the other language eco-systems out there. Like it or not, PHP is in stiff > competition with many other languages, and while I thoroughly appreciate the > community, I'm worried that the hype of other languages (Scala, etc.), the > slow adoption of PHP 5.3, and the limited tools (at least relative to the > other langauges) for using the NoSQL data persistence solutions (MongoDB, > Cassandra, etc.) are restricting PHP's potential growth among the new crop > of developers. I have no data to substantiate this worry, however, and the > beautiful simplicity of PHP could still provide the impetus needed to stay > competitive. Valid points, PHP has a huge strength in numbers, both in supporting (shared) hosts and in developer+projects - but I also worry that it doesn't change with the times quick enough, + the core doesn't have the same hacker + iterative development focus anymore, contrast other languages which get major functionality added at minor revisions, and minor revisions every few days/weeks and there certainly is something to worry about. This said, perhaps the worry is primarily on a personal basis with developers loosing time invested in PHP were they to move off to other languages. Real worries in the PHP core for me, are the huge ignorance and lack of native support for HTTP (which is somewhat ironic), lack of support for NoSQL + RDF tooling, and also support + implementations of the new sets of webapps APIs. Overall, the general sentiment of 'if it can be done in userland, let it be done there' isn't always the best approach (although I understand the arguments to the contrary) - ultimately though, PHP does feel 'stale' comparatively. >> Are there any efforts, projects or initiatives which are floating your boat >> right now and that your watching eagerly (or getting involved with)? >> > > Brushing up on C skills so maybe I can try to create some extensions that > facilitate functional programming approaches within PHP (currying, etc.) On this note, you might be interested in a little project on git called Phunctional [1] which... well if you take a look at [2] you'll see :) [1] http://github.com/KendallHopkins/Phunctional [2] http://github.com/KendallHopkins/Phunctional/blob/master/Phunctional.php Best & thanks for taking the time, Nathan
From: "Mike Roberts" on 29 Jul 2010 08:32 Hello All. I have been given advice on how to remove myself from this list, and taken it. I have tried on my own to discover how to remove myself from this list. I have even ( something I am not proud of) hinted that I might start irrelevant threads of conversation so you will ban me. Unfortunately a look in my 'deleted items' folder shows all the daily messages just thrown in there..... Isn't there somebody who is responsible who instead of giving advice ( that never seems to work) can simply remove me from the distribution list, delete me or whatever? Yes I signed up intentionally so I could understand a technology that I was recruiting for, and yes it was helpful, but that was 2007 and I think it is time for us to break up. So IF YOU HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO REMOVE ME "Make it so number one!". Thanks Sincerely, Michael Roberts Executive Recruiter Corporate Staffing Services 150 Monument Road, Suite 510 Bala Cynwyd, PA 19004 P 610-771-1084 F 610-771-0390 E mroberts(a)jobscss.com Check out my recent feature article in Professional Surveyor 12/09 edition. http://www.profsurv.com/magazine/article.aspx?i=70379 -----Original Message----- From: Nathan Rixham [mailto:nrixham(a)gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 1:36 AM To: PHP-General Subject: [PHP] the state of the PHP community Hi All, I find myself wondering about the state of the PHP community (and related community with a PHP focus), so, here's a bunch of questions - feel free to answer none to all of them, on list or off, or add more of your own - this isn't for anything specific, just out of interest and sure I (and everybody who reads the replies) will learn something + doors/options/contacts may come of it. The only thing I can guarantee is that I'm genuinely interested in every reply and will read every one of them + lookup every tech and link mentioned. in no particular order: What other languages and web techs do you currently use other than PHP? - if you include html or css please include version, if js then preferred libs, and whether client or server side. What's your previous language/tech trail? Are you considering any new languages or techs, and if so which? - names / links Is PHP your hobby/interest, primary development language, just learning or? How many years have you been using PHP regularly? How many years have you been working with web technologies? Did you come from a non-web programming background? Is your primary role web developer or designer? In your developer life, are you an employer, and employee, contractor, freelancer, part of a team of equal standing members? Do you tend to work on jobs for geo-local clients, clients in the same country, or do you work internationally 'on the web'? How do you get your projects? do they come to you, word of mouth, do you hunt and bid for projects, code call, visit clients, target clients individually you think you can help, or? - not looking for trade secrets, just to get enough for an overall picture. Do you have any frustrations with the PHP community, do you find you want to talk shop but can't, or find people to work with but can't, have projects in mind you want to do but can't find people to do them with etc? Do you network with other PHP'ers in real life - meetups etc, do you tend to shy away, or do you find you circulate in other web related but non PHP focussed communities? Are you a member or any other web tech communities, opensource efforts, or standardization bodies - again, if so which? Are there any efforts, projects or initiatives which are floating your boat right now and that your watching eagerly (or getting involved with)? ps: please *do not* flame anybodies answers, that really wouldn't be fair. Best & Regards, Nathan -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
From: Ashley Sheridan on 29 Jul 2010 09:03 On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 08:32 -0400, Mike Roberts wrote: > Hello All. I have been given advice on how to remove myself from this > list, and taken it. I have tried on my own to discover how to remove > myself from this list. I have even ( something I am not proud of) hinted > that I might start irrelevant threads of conversation so you will ban > me. Unfortunately a look in my 'deleted items' folder shows all the > daily messages just thrown in there..... Isn't there somebody who is > responsible who instead of giving advice ( that never seems to work) can > simply remove me from the distribution list, delete me or whatever? Yes > I signed up intentionally so I could understand a technology that I was > recruiting for, and yes it was helpful, but that was 2007 and I think it > is time for us to break up. > > So IF YOU HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO REMOVE ME "Make it so number one!". > Thanks > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > Michael Roberts > Executive Recruiter > Corporate Staffing Services > 150 Monument Road, Suite 510 > Bala Cynwyd, PA 19004 > P 610-771-1084 > F 610-771-0390 > E mroberts(a)jobscss.com > Check out my recent feature article in Professional Surveyor 12/09 > edition. > http://www.profsurv.com/magazine/article.aspx?i=70379 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nathan Rixham [mailto:nrixham(a)gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 1:36 AM > To: PHP-General > Subject: [PHP] the state of the PHP community > > Hi All, > > I find myself wondering about the state of the PHP community (and > related community with a PHP focus), so, here's a bunch of questions - > feel free to answer none to all of them, on list or off, or add more of > your own - this isn't for anything specific, just out of interest and > sure I (and everybody who reads the replies) will learn something + > doors/options/contacts may come of it. The only thing I can guarantee is > > that I'm genuinely interested in every reply and will read every one of > them + lookup every tech and link mentioned. > > in no particular order: > > What other languages and web techs do you currently use other than PHP? > - if you include html or css please include version, if js then > preferred libs, and whether client or server side. > > What's your previous language/tech trail? > > Are you considering any new languages or techs, and if so which? > - names / links > > Is PHP your hobby/interest, primary development language, just learning > or? > > How many years have you been using PHP regularly? > > How many years have you been working with web technologies? > > Did you come from a non-web programming background? > > Is your primary role web developer or designer? > > In your developer life, are you an employer, and employee, contractor, > freelancer, part of a team of equal standing members? > > Do you tend to work on jobs for geo-local clients, clients in the same > country, or do you work internationally 'on the web'? > > How do you get your projects? do they come to you, word of mouth, do you > > hunt and bid for projects, code call, visit clients, target clients > individually you think you can help, or? > - not looking for trade secrets, just to get enough for an overall > picture. > > Do you have any frustrations with the PHP community, do you find you > want to talk shop but can't, or find people to work with but can't, have > > projects in mind you want to do but can't find people to do them with > etc? > > Do you network with other PHP'ers in real life - meetups etc, do you > tend to shy away, or do you find you circulate in other web related but > non PHP focussed communities? > > Are you a member or any other web tech communities, opensource efforts, > or standardization bodies - again, if so which? > > Are there any efforts, projects or initiatives which are floating your > boat right now and that your watching eagerly (or getting involved > with)? > > ps: please *do not* flame anybodies answers, that really wouldn't be > fair. > > Best & Regards, > > Nathan > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > I don't meant to insult your intelligence, but are you sure you've tried to remove the same address you signed up with? From what I can tell, historically people have had problems where the email address they are now receiving emails on is not the same one they signed up with, due to some email forwarding trickery. Try looking at the email headers to see if it was a forward? I'm not sure there's a someone in-charge of managing who is on the list and who isn't, I believe it's all automated. Simple sending a blank email (not sure if the signature should be removed or not) to the email address found in the headers on the emails from the list should do it, or failing that, I believe there's a form on the php.net website itself. On aside-note, I commend you for researching something you were recruiting for. I've been given mis-matched job posts before by recruiters who clearly didn't do what you did, which resulted in a lot of wasted time on both our parts when we both realised. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
From: "Jay Blanchard" on 29 Jul 2010 09:18
[snip] > So IF YOU HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO REMOVE ME "Make it so number one!". [/snip] CLICK HERE -> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php |