the state of the PHP community
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From: Robert Cummings on 29 Jul 2010 22:18 On 10-07-29 03:35 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > On 7/28/10 11:26 PM, Larry Garfield wrote: >> - Those driving PHP development itself (vis, writing the engine) don't seem to >> comprehend the idea of someone running a web site who isn't also a C >> developer, sysadmin, and performance specialist. "If you don't have root then >> we don't care about you" is the prevailing attitude I see. I'm sure most of >> PHP-DEV will disagree with that assessment but I've been reading the list for >> 3 years now and that sense is very clear. That's quite unfortunate given that >> the vast majority of PHP scripts are still on shared hosting where you have no >> control over the environment at all. > > The very basic reason for this is that we build stuff that we need. We > will try to cater to others as well, but the things that receive the > most attention are the things that the people writing the code need > themselves for some reason. None of us run an ISP with thousands of > virtual hosts on a single 32-bit machine and half a gig of ram. > > It is just human nature. PHP is not a product. It is a shared tool and > the people capable of building the tool get a lot of say into what the > tool does and how it does it. People who are not capable of building > the tool can shout suggestions from the sidelines and occasionally some > of these will stick, but often they won't. I have to give my sincere appreciation for the core developers. In the past when issues come up on the internals list, the developers there have been extremely gracious and diplomatic when considering the views of those not contributing to the core. I have never seen them scorn a well written request or viewpoint. I have seen them go to great lengths to try and find a solution that makes the multitude happy rather than just satisfy their own itch. Cheers, Rob. -- E-Mail Disclaimer: Information contained in this message and any attached documents is considered confidential and legally protected. This message is intended solely for the addressee(s). Disclosure, copying, and distribution are prohibited unless authorized.
From: Robert Cummings on 29 Jul 2010 22:28 On 10-07-29 10:18 PM, David McGlone wrote: > On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 22:14 -0400, Robert Cummings wrote: >> Early high school I used to program in basic on a TRS-80. Oh how I loved >> saving my programs to audio cassette. Later in high school I learned >> pascal and then later qbasic. Later still I studied computer science and >> was exposed to many different languages C, C++, Smalltalk, Java, >> Scheme, Prolog, Perl, JavaScript, HTML, VRML, SQL that I remember. When >> I finished university I walked straight into a PHP job knowing not an >> iota of PHP. I came up to speed the first week and fell in love with it. >> That was around March 2000. The company there always used Java also, as >> part of a desktop suite to manage the web content. Towards the end of >> 2002 they began an effort to create a Java based web framework to >> parallel their PHP framework and so I used Java more at that time. Then >> the dot com crash caught up with them and layoffs ensued. >> > What High School did you go to? What year? As far as I remember when I > was in HS, nothing about computers was offered. this was back in '88. I was attending the Nechako Valley Secondary School in Vanderhoof, British Columbia, Canada in 1989 when I was learning Pascal. Now that I think of it more deeply, it wasn't Qbasic in high schoool, it was Watcom Basic while attending Timmins High & Vocational School in Timmins, Ontario, Canada in 1990 or 1991. Qbasic was at home :) Actually, I'm not sure about Timmins for the Watcom Basic, it might have been Lockerby Composite in Sudbury, Ontario, Canada. I attended 4 different high schools. Some if it is blurry now :) Cheers, Rob. -- E-Mail Disclaimer: Information contained in this message and any attached documents is considered confidential and legally protected. This message is intended solely for the addressee(s). Disclosure, copying, and distribution are prohibited unless authorized.
From: Jason Pruim on 29 Jul 2010 22:40 On Jul 29, 2010, at 1:36 AM, Nathan Rixham wrote: > Hi All, Hey Nathan! > > I find myself wondering about the state of the PHP community (and > related community with a PHP focus), so, here's a bunch of questions > - feel free to answer none to all of them, on list or off, or add > more of your own - this isn't for anything specific, just out of > interest and sure I (and everybody who reads the replies) will learn > something + doors/options/contacts may come of it. The only thing I > can guarantee is that I'm genuinely interested in every reply and > will read every one of them + lookup every tech and link mentioned. > > in no particular order: > > What other languages and web techs do you currently use other than > PHP? > - if you include html or css please include version, if js then > preferred libs, and whether client or server side. HTML 4.01 and just getting into 5.0 CSS 2 + 3(Love some of the opacity stuff!), PHP What ever the current version is that my host has installed. MySQL > > What's your previous language/tech trail? Don't really have much of a trail... PHP was my start with just a little HTML/CSS before that > > Are you considering any new languages or techs, and if so which? > - names / links I need to learn some more... But haven't decided where or what yet... I'm thinking Java/Javascript (Which I didn't realize were different until a little bit ago :P) > > Is PHP your hobby/interest, primary development language, just > learning or? It started as a hobby... Then turned into a requirement for my job as I developed my companies website, and now it's what I hope tot be able to make money at! :) > > How many years have you been using PHP regularly? 5 > > How many years have you been working with web technologies? 13 (Started when the internet first came out :)) > > Did you come from a non-web programming background? Yes I did... Presorted mailings with the US Post Office. > > Is your primary role web developer or designer? Both... Though I struggle more with design but having a loving and creative wife who helps > > In your developer life, are you an employer, and employee, > contractor, freelancer, part of a team of equal standing members? I would be a freelancer/contractor... Wouldn't mind being part of a team though with the right bunch of people. > > Do you tend to work on jobs for geo-local clients, clients in the > same country, or do you work internationally 'on the web'? I've only done a handful of paying jobs.. mostly from job boards on the net... But I develop for my self to expand my unterstanding > > How do you get your projects? do they come to you, word of mouth, do > you hunt and bid for projects, code call, visit clients, target > clients individually you think you can help, or? > - not looking for trade secrets, just to get enough for an overall > picture. Right now just me going out and looking for them. Experimenting with twitter to see if that helps though > > Do you have any frustrations with the PHP community, do you find you > want to talk shop but can't, or find people to work with but can't, > have projects in mind you want to do but can't find people to do > them with etc? I don't know enough of it to help out as much as I want on the mailing list... Or yall reply to quick for me since I work a non-programming job full time! :P > > Do you network with other PHP'ers in real life - meetups etc, do you > tend to shy away, or do you find you circulate in other web related > but non PHP focussed communities? real life? You mean unplugged from the matrix? Offline I don't know anyone that understands what I do... So mostly no. > > Are you a member or any other web tech communities, opensource > efforts, or standardization bodies - again, if so which? No > > Are there any efforts, projects or initiatives which are floating > your boat right now and that your watching eagerly (or getting > involved with)? Loving the stuff coming out of An Event Apart... The test suites for CSS 3 and HTML5 are getting me very excited in what can happen... And maybe we can push this whole net thing a little further and really make it popular! :) > > ps: please *do not* flame anybodies answers, that really wouldn't be > fair. > > Best & Regards, > > Nathan > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php >
From: Lester Caine on 30 Jul 2010 03:31 Nathan Rixham wrote: > What other languages and web techs do you currently use other than PHP? > - if you include html or css please include version, if js then > preferred libs, and whether client or server side. I'm trying to bring customers up to modern standards, but many STILL have W2k running so are stuck with IE6 until their IT departments realise that there is something outside M$ :( > What's your previous language/tech trail? I started programming on a little 16k memory machine ... An ICL1901 which had it's own room at Guildford Tech. And I've been through various chip sets at the machine code level. Higher level stuff was in C/C++ for a long time, but on the whole all new deployments are in PHP > Are you considering any new languages or techs, and if so which? > - names / links Having to cope with python and other language hassle just to maintin the tools I use to support PHP is bad enough. I don't plan on chaning the distribution base any time soon. > Is PHP your hobby/interest, primary development language, just learning or? Primary business base > How many years have you been using PHP regularly? When did PHP5 hit production ;) I started on the release candidates rather than bothering with PHP4. > How many years have you been working with web technologies? Probably as above, but I was looking for an alternative to BuilderC or a couple of years prior before making the move. > Did you come from a non-web programming background? I'm still basically a hardware engineer. I came to core windows programming when I was working on a project that ran multiple TV screens from an IBM AT. I employed software guys to write the drivers and after months of no progress I kicked them out one Friday spent the whole weekend making the core drive work and gave them a working system the following Monday. Needless to say the development team was a little lighter the following month ;) > Is your primary role web developer or designer? Developer first, but using things like PHP and developing facilities on top. > In your developer life, are you an employer, and employee, contractor, > freelancer, part of a team of equal standing members? Self employed but working with a few other like minded developers around the world. > Do you tend to work on jobs for geo-local clients, clients in the same > country, or do you work internationally 'on the web'? Local customer base. We can only really make money supporting the hardware, so they need to be within easy access. > How do you get your projects? do they come to you, word of mouth, do you > hunt and bid for projects, code call, visit clients, target clients > individually you think you can help, or? > - not looking for trade secrets, just to get enough for an overall picture. Loyal customer base who keep me in food. > Do you have any frustrations with the PHP community, do you find you > want to talk shop but can't, or find people to work with but can't, have > projects in mind you want to do but can't find people to do them with etc? I've got a nice network of on-line contacts who usually kick me in the right direction, an we help others as much a we can. > Do you network with other PHP'ers in real life - meetups etc, do you > tend to shy away, or do you find you circulate in other web related but > non PHP focussed communities? I have a parallel path which is also computer base, but model engineering is a sideline where I support others on the CNC and other electronics based projects for them. One of my PHP sites is dedicated to that area. > Are you a member or any other web tech communities, opensource efforts, > or standardization bodies - again, if so which? Not directly. I was treasurer for the Firebird Foundation for a while, and I'm still actively involved in that and other related OS projects. > Are there any efforts, projects or initiatives which are floating your > boat right now and that your watching eagerly (or getting involved with)? The bitweaver framework has been the base for my own work for many years and is slowly filling all my own local requirements. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php
From: Per Jessen on 30 Jul 2010 05:37
Nathan Rixham wrote: > What other languages and web techs do you currently use other than > PHP? - if you include html or css please include version, if js then > preferred libs, and whether client or server side. C, C++, assembler, xhtml, css2, xslt1, javascript(client), shell-script= .. > What's your previous language/tech trail? REXX, PL/I, Smalltalk. > Are you considering any new languages or techs, and if so which? Not really.=20 > Is PHP your hobby/interest, primary development language, just > learning or? It's just one of many things I need to run my business. > How many years have you been using PHP regularly? 7-8. > How many years have you been working with web technologies? 7-8. > Did you come from a non-web programming background? Yes. > Is your primary role web developer or designer? Nope. > In your developer life, are you an employer, and employee, contractor= , > freelancer, part of a team of equal standing members? An employer. > Do you tend to work on jobs for geo-local clients, clients in the sam= e > country, or do you work internationally 'on the web'? I only work for me. > How do you get your projects? do they come to you, word of mouth, do > you hunt and bid for projects, code call, visit clients, target > clients individually you think you can help, or? See above. > Do you network with other PHP'ers in real life - meetups etc, do you > tend to shy away, or do you find you circulate in other web related > but non PHP focussed communities? No and no.=20 > Are you a member or any other web tech communities, opensource > efforts, or standardization bodies - again, if so which? ACM, IEEE, openSUSE. --=20 Per Jessen, Z=C3=BCrich (16.4=C2=B0C) |