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From: Anonymous on 1 Aug 2008 05:45 In article <4d278e1a-c044-4fa9-83a6-6b231d00b555(a)f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, <taoxianfeng(a)gmail.com> wrote: >OK GUYS, THE 100TH POST! Ahhh, just getting started, then... but look, all caps! It must be old mainframe source code! > >LET'S STOP DISCUSSING HERE ,SHALL WE? If you want less discussion then stop asking such interesting questions. > >PLEASE GIVE SOME TIME TO CONCLUDE YOUR POSTS, AND SOLVE SOME... NON >TECHNICAL PROBLEMS. Is it in a good neighborhood? How many miles has it been driven? Does she come from a good family? > >MAYBE I WILL TALK TO YOU LATER. Take your time... that which has value is rarely done instantly. DD
From: Michael Mattias on 2 Aug 2008 08:14 <taoxianfeng(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:83df5612-b65d-4541-957f-47d3fbf0df51(a)y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com... > I learned Java,C#,C++,SQL...tons of courses in campus but mastered > nothing. > Chinese university education is becoming fast food and paper-making > machine...well,that's another topic again. There are two important differences between school and Real Life: 1. In Real Life the answers are *not* to be found in Appendix B. 2. In Real Life all problems are "story problems." MCM
From: klshafer on 4 Aug 2008 17:55 On Aug 1, 11:20 pm, Robert <n...(a)e.mail> wrote: Robert: > >>If I refused to do taks for which I'm not qualified, I'd be looking for > >>a new job every month or two. I would hazard that, based upon your immediately previous "track record" with the client, that management deemed you "qualified" because of your ability to produce. And that this fact trumped the fact of your limited or non-existent experience with the new tool/ language. That this might be so is a Very Good Thing, and not a Bad Thing at all. Such is the stuff of Opportunities to learn new things. And yet, I agree with the Doc below... Doc: > >Sometimes, Mr Wagner, it works out that one winds up having what one is > >willing to accept. > >Our experiences, of course, may be different... I've > >been asked to do stuff ('we need it yesterday!') for which I did not have > >appropriate experience and my response has been 'I have stated, > >unambiguously and explicitly, that this does not fall within my existing > >skill-set; in order to get it done I will need (time/resources). If those > >cannot be made available for me then I must, in all good conscience, > >refuse the task just as a plumber would have to refuse a job-order for > >rewiring a generator.' What I read here is how we have a professional obligation to provide full disclosure to the client, and this means going beyond being "honest" (which is where you answer questions truthfully), and to the point of being "forthright", where you _volunteer_ information to the client which is relevant to their decision-making. Where I differ a wee bit from the 'Doc here is I consider it to be completely in the client manager's domain whether or not to make that assignment to me, provided I make full disclosure of facts about my history and ability. Volunteering that one has almost no VB experience is forthright; giving examples of other engagements where one had limited, or no, experience with a new language, but had demonstrated ability to learn and produce, and still one was able to complete the task in a "reasonable" amount of time, is sufficient here. The only "refusal" I see as necessary is to refuse to be boxed into a deadline corner. A comment like, "Well, I haven't done this thing in this language Y before, so I don't really know how long it will take me, but this is how long it took me in a similar situation where I learned language X on the fly blah blah blah" seems appropriate to me. Then let the Manager _decide_. Deciding for him by _refusing_ is my doing his job for him, and I don't get paid as well as him :-) ... Robert: > Word gets around that you're a crochety old guy, which is the kiss of death outside the > mainframe world. I work with people in their 20s and 30s who think old people are too slow > and out of style. They'll fire you in a heartbeat. It takes an effort to wow them.- Hide quoted text - Question: What is the average velocity of the winner in each of the Indianapolis 500 mile races? Answer: Zero. The point being, the finish line is the same as the starting line, just 200 laps later, and the car winds up in the same place where it started. Oh. Average "speed" is somewhat in excess of 200 mph. In math/physics terms, "speed" is a scalar quantity; "velocity" is a vector quanity: it has both scalar _and_ directional components. How I care to "project" myself is thus: what others, especially those in their 20's and 30's, might see as my "slowness" is my deficit in the "scalar" quantity. I make up for that in "velocity". And it is experience which helps one see out to the horizon to know what direction one should take, and whether current, albeity speedy, efforts are taking you in that direction or are simply spinning your wheels. Making such a distinction may cost you opportunities, and it may gain you some. The important thing is that making others aware that this distinction is important to you helps both parties (you and the client) in the engagement selection process. That is some (but not all) of the "fit" determination that we all go through. My experience is that most decisions are not made on "optimum" criteria (eg. the "best technical fit"), but rather, on adequacy of fit plus the client and co-workers being "comfortable" with the decision. If I have been successful, it is not because I was able to "wow" either the client or the other staff (I may not be smart enough or talented enough for that :-) ) - it is because I convinced them I was adequate and they were comfortable with me. Ken
From: klshafer on 4 Aug 2008 18:02 On Aug 2, 8:14 am, "Michael Mattias" <mmatt...(a)talsystems.com> wrote: > > There are two important differences between school and Real Life: > > 1. In Real Life the answers are *not* to be found in Appendix B. > > 2. In Real Life all problems are "story problems." > > MCM Right you are, Mr. Mattias, and I say that though some may consider me a bit of an "academic" (degree professional who also manages to teach a bit at a community college.) And the relevant "story problem" at hand is to determine The Real Need of the client. For this, the formal posting and job/project description provides only a partial set of clues, albeit important ones. Submitting you resume, and the "match" it makes with the formal job spec, should have as its goal not the job itself, but only the granting of an interview. I still prefer face-to-face, though phone screening is becoming increasingly prominent. It is during this interview that you have to think quick on your feet, to determine what The Real Need is. That is Dancing the Dance, and it should be, though not always is, a bit fun. :-) It's nice to have a few months billings salted away for these times, lest what should be a Dance of Delight becomes a Dance of (Near) Desperation. Ken
From: Anonymous on 5 Aug 2008 08:18
In article <8edcf9f9-cd9e-4712-ab3f-79df57beee4e(a)w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, klshafer(a)att.net <klshafer(a)att.net> wrote: >On Aug 1, 11:20�pm, Robert <n...(a)e.mail> wrote: [snip] >Doc: > >Sometimes, Mr Wagner, it works out that one winds up having >what one is >> >willing to accept. � >> >Our experiences, of course, may be different... I've >> >been asked to do stuff ('we need it yesterday!') for which I did not have >> >appropriate experience and my response has been 'I have stated, >> >unambiguously and explicitly, that this does not fall within my existing >> >skill-set; in order to get it done I will need (time/resources). �If those >> >cannot be made available for me then I must, in all good conscience, >> >refuse the task just as a plumber would have to refuse a job-order for >> >rewiring a generator.' > >What I read here is how we have a professional obligation to provide >full disclosure to the client, and this means going beyond being >"honest" (which is where you answer questions truthfully), and to the >point of being "forthright", where you _volunteer_ information to the >client which is relevant to their decision-making. Where I differ a >wee bit from the 'Doc here is I consider it to be completely in the >client manager's domain whether or not to make that assignment to me, >provided I make full disclosure of facts about my history and ability. >Volunteering that one has almost no VB experience is forthright; >giving examples of other engagements where one had limited, or no, >experience with a new language, but had demonstrated ability to learn >and produce, and still one was able to complete the task in a >"reasonable" amount of time, is sufficient here. The only "refusal" I >see as necessary is to refuse to be boxed into a deadline corner. A >comment like, "Well, I haven't done this thing in this language Y >before, so I don't really know how long it will take me, but this is >how long it took me in a similar situation where I learned language X >on the fly blah blah blah" seems appropriate to me. Then let the >Manager _decide_. Deciding for him by _refusing_ is my doing his job >for him, and I don't get paid as well as him :-) ... One of the reasons I went the route of the consultant/contractor/hired gun, Mr Shafer, was because of the commandment - I think from the Book of Leviticus - of 'Thou Shalt Not Pay a Good Programmer more than a Bad Manager but a Consultant may'st thou pay more'... be that as it may: My work goes out over my signature. There are times when I disagree with what I told must be done and I make my disagreements known, at times to the point of commenting the code with words like 'chuckle-head'... but if the code is over my signature then it is my work. There is a point where I have said 'This I Will Not Do'... now, how I determine that such a point has been reached is another matter, entire, and perhaps a better subject for consideration as Aesthetics... but some things I will not do. There are some things I will not stand by and watch done, either; if He Who Signs My Timesheet says 'Wait here while I use this loaded pistol as a hammer' I go away, despite the Direct Order. I chose the example of plumber and electrician carefully, Mr Shafer... a task, to my mind, includes a deadline; it might be difficult to get an Electrician's Certification Exam re-scheduled in time to get the plumber to study for it, pass it and then re-wire the generator... not impossible, just difficult. Likewise, were I told 'You have three days to learn this particular chip's Assembley language and code this heart-pacemaker warning notification routine'... no. This I will not do, there's always another job. Years ago I worked with a fellow who had coded some of New York City's original emergency response telephone system. He said that the gravity of the situation was such that afterwards he would only work with financial systems; his explanation was along the lines of: 'You screw up on a 911 call, the ambulance goes to the wrong street or the wrong block of the right street and somebody dies. In finance... it's only money.' Likewise, an error in rewiring a generator causes a building to go up in flames and an error in a pacemaker's firmware causes someone to die. I cannot stop a Corner-Office Idiot from making such orders, I can only make sure that what I have signed off on does not, to the best of my own knowledge, cause a catastrophe. [snip] >Question: What is the average velocity of the winner in each of the >Indianapolis 500 mile races? >Answer: Zero. Really? I would have said 'that depends on when and how the measurement was taken.' DD |