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From: Michael Mattias on 2 Aug 2008 08:20 "Robert" <no(a)e.mail> wrote in message news:ati794tbvu02k92t3od5t0u6g6culuscob(a)4ax.com... > On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:35:25 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf(a)panix.com () wrote: > Word gets around that you're a crochety old guy, which is the kiss of > death outside the > mainframe world. I work with people in their 20s and 30s who think old > people are too slow > and out of style. They'll fire you in a heartbeat. It takes an effort to > wow them. The "problem" with us "crochety old guys" is that we know from experience when something a client requests simply will not work and we know failure of any kind will invariably reflect poorly on us; and that we were simply "following orders" will protect our good name about as much as that excuse worked at Nuremburg. Which is the main reason this crochtey old guy does not contract, he consults. -- Michael C. Mattias Tal Systems Inc. Racine WI mmattias(a)talsystems.com
From: Anonymous on 2 Aug 2008 11:42 In article <rgYkk.9068$vn7.832(a)flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com>, Michael Mattias <mmattias(a)talsystems.com> wrote: >"Robert" <no(a)e.mail> wrote in message >news:ati794tbvu02k92t3od5t0u6g6culuscob(a)4ax.com... >> On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:35:25 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf(a)panix.com () wrote: > >> Word gets around that you're a crochety old guy, which is the kiss of >> death outside the >> mainframe world. I work with people in their 20s and 30s who think old >> people are too slow >> and out of style. They'll fire you in a heartbeat. It takes an effort to >> wow them. [snip] >Which is the main reason this crochtey old guy does not contract, he >consults. My experience, Mr Mattias, is that what is called a 'consultant' at one organisation is called a 'contractor' at another and a 'temporary resource' at a third... the last term I found to have a kind of chilling dehumanisation to it. At any rate... it may be that a (mumblety)-year-old hired gun would be making better use of her time by *not* trying to be a better 30-year-old than the 30-year-olds are and, instead, just being a good (mumblety)-year-old hired gun. To tie into another thread... enthusiasm is wonderful, yes, but as the deadline looms it might be better to have fewer 'wow, I never knew that before... no wonder I was havingso much trouble! for so long' moments and more 'all right, this piece works, just as it has since the days of ENIAC... what's the next milestone?' moments. DD
From: Michael Mattias on 2 Aug 2008 12:49 <docdwarf(a)panix.com> wrote in message news:g71v9a$pjv$1(a)reader1.panix.com... > My experience, Mr Mattias, is that what is called a 'consultant' at one > organisation is called a 'contractor' at another and a 'temporary > resource' at a third... the last term I found to have a kind of chilling > dehumanisation to it. What's in a name? That which we call a rose .... etc The use and misuse of the words "contractor" and "consultant" is one of my longtime personal "issues." In general my complaint is with the latter being used to describe the function of the former. However, both professional contractors and professional consultants should know the difference, regardless of what terms others may use. MCM
From: Robert on 2 Aug 2008 18:59 On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 11:49:33 -0500, "Michael Mattias" <mmattias(a)talsystems.com> wrote: ><docdwarf(a)panix.com> wrote in message news:g71v9a$pjv$1(a)reader1.panix.com... >> My experience, Mr Mattias, is that what is called a 'consultant' at one >> organisation is called a 'contractor' at another and a 'temporary >> resource' at a third... the last term I found to have a kind of chilling >> dehumanisation to it. > >What's in a name? > >That which we call a rose .... etc > >The use and misuse of the words "contractor" and "consultant" is one of my >longtime personal "issues." > >In general my complaint is with the latter being used to describe the >function of the former. Contractor is a misnomer, because it implies a contractual obligation for duration of employment. There is no such guarantee, all contracts say "employment at will," which means the employer can terminate at any time for any reason or no reason. Contracts are terminated prematurely all the time. IBM is notorious for doing it. I signed an eight month contract (and a six month apartment lease) that was terminated with no notice after two months. IBM didn't lose their outsource contract with the client not was the project cancelled. Some faceless bureaucrat, probably in another city, realized they weren't hitting a profit target, so (s)he axed 100 contractors in one day.
From: Pete Dashwood on 2 Aug 2008 21:55
"Robert" <no(a)e.mail> wrote in message news:22p99452rh1df8lr0hf1o6psbgvsu3id4g(a)4ax.com... > On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 11:49:33 -0500, "Michael Mattias" > <mmattias(a)talsystems.com> wrote: > >><docdwarf(a)panix.com> wrote in message >>news:g71v9a$pjv$1(a)reader1.panix.com... >>> My experience, Mr Mattias, is that what is called a 'consultant' at one >>> organisation is called a 'contractor' at another and a 'temporary >>> resource' at a third... the last term I found to have a kind of chilling >>> dehumanisation to it. >> >>What's in a name? >> >>That which we call a rose .... etc >> >>The use and misuse of the words "contractor" and "consultant" is one of my >>longtime personal "issues." >> >>In general my complaint is with the latter being used to describe the >>function of the former. > > Contractor is a misnomer, because it implies a contractual obligation for > duration of > employment. There is no such guarantee, all contracts say "employment at > will," which > means the employer can terminate at any time for any reason or no reason. > > Contracts are terminated prematurely all the time. IBM is notorious for > doing it. I signed > an eight month contract (and a six month apartment lease) that was > terminated with no > notice after two months. IBM didn't lose their outsource contract with the > client not was > the project cancelled. Some faceless bureaucrat, probably in another city, > realized they > weren't hitting a profit target, so (s)he axed 100 contractors in one day. > > Why would you sign a contract that allows them to do that? Escape clauses are fine, but there has to be cash in lieu of notice. Why don't you negotiate your own contract with the agency and let them worry about IBM terminating it? Are experienced contractors so thick on the ground they can afford to treat people like that? If so, then maybe you should be looking at a different way to make a living. In the days when I was contracting as a programmer/analyst I tried to build a good working relationship with one agency. It worked very well.They would have another contract waiting as soon as the current one was finished, if I didn't want to extend. They met me at the airport when I arrived back in the U.K. from visits home between contracts, and ensured I had accommodation for the first week or so until it was decided where I'd be working. In other words, they took good care of me and, as a result, I did not circulate my CV to other agaencies. (In fact, I ended up becoming a partner in the agency...). The agency was eventually sold and all concerned came out of it pretty well. By then I had established enough credibility not to really need an agency to get work and I was moving more towards management anyway. These days I'm pretty happy working from home with occasional visits to client sites, but I believe I will still take on the odd on-site Project Management type role for assignments that look particularly interesing (difficult...). In these cases I have a standard contract that is fair to both parties and no-one has refused to sign it yet. It does not provide for immediate termination without recompense (except in the unimaginable case of me running berserk or otherwise misbehaving, or conducting myself improperly.) and it does offer a money back guarantee of satisfaction. So far, I have never had to pay out, although I came close once... :-) As long as you accept having a gun held to your head, then people will be tempted to hold guns to your head. I've been a free lance since 1975 and I've NEVER had the kind of treatment you describe. I treat people fairly, do not despise and denigrate managers, or programmers, or analysts, or anybody else... (even poor ones...instead, try and encourage them to be better), and apply the fifteen points I posted here a while back. As a result, even when working for managers half my age, I have no problem with them. (I had one on a project a few years back who said to me: "Y'know Pete, you're old enough to be my father..." I replied: "Aren't you lucky to have someone that kind and wise, who you can trust, working for you... ? :-)" We never had a problem. The world you describe is foreign to me. Maybe it is just America. Pete. -- "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything." |