From: Brian Candler on 11 Feb 2010 16:52
> I was able to define two methods of the same name
> that can act on the same object, but dependent on the role it plays.
I like that. Your base class Role is exactly what I was thinking of as a
> Thus the Context has a method that is dispatched to all the roles.
Hmm, that's very clever, but it's a bit too magic for me. It's
multicasting (pun not intended); I'd probably just iterate in the
context to make it explicit.
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
From: Brian Candler on 11 Feb 2010 17:07
Here's a noddy version (minus annotations)
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
From: Intransition on 11 Feb 2010 20:33
On Feb 11, 5:07 pm, Brian Candler <b.cand...(a)pobox.com> wrote:
> Here's a noddy version (minus annotations)
Very nice --very clean. That close to how first thought about it too,
but some of those other ideas came to mind in the processes and I
wanted to experiment with them to see how they would play out.
I think you are right that the "role dispatching" is too magic. I like
it in the sense that it feels like a natural fit for concurrent
processing. However, at the very least, there needs to be a way to do
it explicitly as you have done.
The class level casting on the other hand, I am finding very
appealing. The reason being that it provides a very natural limiting
structure to scope of a context, i.e. one role per attribute per
context. By casting at the instance level, a context can do anything
whatsoever, each method could take actions completely unrelated. But
having the casting the at the class level ensures the methods will
have a interrelated coherence.
From: Jörg W Mittag on 12 Feb 2010 18:57
Brian Candler wrote:
> Thomas Sawyer wrote:
> Then at the end, it says that an account isn't really an object at all -
> but all the previous code has shown it as a concrete object (e.g.
> Account.find(id)). So an example of what an account role *should* look
> like in code would be good.
I have been following DCI on and off ever since James's JAOO 2008
interview and more closely since James's and Trygve's March 2009
article. I won't even try and pretend that I understand as little as
1% of this stuff, but there is one important idea that I have carried
around with me, ever since I read all those "it's just traits"
comments on the Artima article: one thing that I always need to remind
myself of, is that doing DCI in Ruby is like doing OO in C: it's only
a *very* rough approximation which lacks much of the expressive power
and often confuses the idea with the implementation.
Whenever I think "it's just traits/aspects/mixins/responsibilities and
why does he say this isn't an object when it clearly is?" I picture
myself trying to explain OO to a C programmer, in C, and constantly
answering questions like "it's just structs and function pointers and
why do you keep calling it an object when it clearly is a struct?" and
yelling back at him "because there are no objects in C, idiot, structs
is all I have!"
I believe that, like OO or logic programming, DCI is only going to
start to *really* shine (or, as the case may be, bomb spectacularly)
when we have DCI languages. There were many logic systems in Lisp
before Prolog, and as Alan Kay recently pointed out, there were object
systems in assembly going back as far as 1952, but before Prolog,
Simula and Smalltalk nobody cared, and nobody understood. It's hard to
see the real value of the idea behind the implementation, if the
implementation leaks all over the place as structs+function pointers
as objects and methods do in C and objects, classes and mixins as
data, context and roles do in Ruby.
Unfortunately, for this dynamic role injection stuff, we run into one
of the (very few) limitations of Ruby. We cannot just, as Trygve says,
"subclass the compiler" and "add to and delete methods from the method
dictionary" in Ruby (although we probably *can* in Rubinius) like
Trygve's Squeak implementation does or subvert the compiler like
James's C++ template metaprogramming implementation does.
Ironically, this stuff, which looks like a match made in heaven for
Ruby, is one of the *very few* instances where C++'s static
metaprogramming outshines Ruby's dynamic metaprogramming and the leaky
abstraction of ECMAScript actually *helps* rather than hurts.
(Although I *do* have a seed of a spark of a hunch on how to fake
dynamic class composition.)
Anyway, I don't really have anything useful to contribute to this
discussion other than the tip that it helps to constantly remind
myself that DCI in a non-DCI language is always only an approximation.
From: Jörg W Mittag on 12 Feb 2010 19:30
Jörg W Mittag wrote:
> I believe that, like OO or logic programming, DCI is only going to
> start to *really* shine (or, as the case may be, bomb spectacularly)
> when we have DCI languages.
BTW: I *do* realize that this contradicts what James and Trygve have
been saying, that DCI is a paradigm that enables "good OO" in
*existing mainstream* languages.