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From: LewB on 31 May 2010 23:07
You have answered by concerns. An image system will save a lot of work in
the event of a disaster. If I understand the Acronis system you can make
incremental backups (which are images/mirrors)?? And in the event you needed
to restore only the data lost between the two incremental backups doing a
restore would not restore the entire system? Can you use Acronis to do a
transfer of all your data, apps, etc. to a new computer??
LJB
--
LJB


"Daave" wrote:

> You seem to be equating backing up data with backing up the entire
> system.
>
> Full and incremental images are *far* superior to full and incremental
> data backups!
>
> Don't get me wrong; data backups have their place! But if you image the
> entire hard drive, not only have you backed up all your data but you
> have just made things immensely better for yourself in the event you
> need to recover from some disaster (malware or a disastrous update or
> corruption due to a power spike or some other reason). Restoring the
> image is easy and once this is done, your system is just as it once
> was -- before the disaster struck. If all you did was back up data, you
> would need to reinstall the OS, the drivers, the service packs and
> subsequent security patches, applications and customize your settings,
> etc. This would take many hours of effort. Restoring an image can be
> done ovenight without any input from you.
>
> Out of cuiriosity, what backup method do you prefer and use?
>
>
> LewB wrote:
> > I wasn't aware of this debacle....you are indicating that Window7
> > will not accept a backup made with the WinXP backup apps. Hard to
> > believe. But sticking to XP only why does Ken downgrade the backup
> > program that
> > comes with it? As mentioned it seems to provide the standard variety
> > of backup choices, full, incremental, differential, etc.......so
> > except for the absence of creating an image backup it would seem on
> > paper to be equal to others with the exception of not being able to
> > create a clone or a mirror backup that will include all of the apps
> > and the OS. What am I missing here? LB
> >
> >> Here is one reason.....you back up all of your personal work using
> >> XP backup and then you upgrade to W7...........and lo and behold it
> >> uses a different backup
> >> program and all your work just sits on the backup medium
> >> inaccessible.
> >>
> >> peter
> >>
> >> --
> >> If you find a posting or message from me offensive,inappropriate
> >> or disruptive,please ignore it.
> >> If you dont know how to ignore a posting complain
> >> to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate :-)
> >>
> >>
> >> "LewB" <whoislew(a)hotmail.com(sparethespam)> wrote in message
> >> news:E5CE3927-D282-4BD5-BDA1-5FC62607A40D(a)microsoft.com...
> >>>
> >>> Since I have been trying to sort out backup apps I have been reading
> >>> through the prior postings and came across this one you authored
> >>> last year.
> >>> Why do you not support the backup that comes with XP? Doesn't it
> >>> do full, incremental, and differential backups?? It seems to me
> >>> the only thing it does not do that Acronis does is clone to a new
> >>> HD and/or do a mirror backup
> >>> to an external disc. Can you expand on your statement?
> >>> LJB
> >>> --
> >>> LJB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Ken Blake, MVP" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:29:01 -0800, Don
> >>>> <Don(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> XP Backup is great except for the time required to select the
> >>>>> folders to BU.
> >>>>> Is there a way that I can save this list of folders to be backed
> >>>>> up and eliminate having to select them each time I want to backup?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> You replied to a *very* old message of mine.
> >>>>
> >>>> Personally I think that the backup program which comes with XP is
> >>>> about the poorest choice available, and I recommend against it. The
> >>>> best backup program is Acronis TrueImage.
> >>>>
> >>>> Windows Home Server's beta is over and it's now released. As Doug
> >>>> said in his message quoted below, is a great way to get backups
> >>>> performed automatically, and I recommend it highly if you are
> >>>> willing to spend the money for an extra computer as well as the
> >>>> software.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> "Ken Blake, MVP" wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Doug Knox - [MS-MVP] wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Ken,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> You might also want to add a comment about Windows Home Server,
> >>>>>>>> just
> >>>>>>>> in case the user has a spare PC laying around. The beta is now
> >>>>>>>> open
> >>>>>>>> for the general public to apply.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> http://connect.microsoft.com/windowshomeserver
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks, Doug. I was planning on adding something about WHS to my
> >>>>>>> standard backup message, but I'm reluctant to do it yet. Even if
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> beta is open to the public, I'm hesitant to recommend beta
> >>>>>>> software.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Replying to my own post, I'd also like to wait until I have a
> >>>>>> little more
> >>>>>> experience with WHS myself. Coming soon.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
> >>>>>> Please reply to the newsgroup
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
> >>>> Please Reply to the Newsgroup
>
>
> .
>
From: Anthony Buckland on 1 Jun 2010 00:21

"LewB" <whoislew(a)hotmail.com(sparethespam)> wrote in message
news:29917EF2-8E0B-4ECC-96EB-4C0FE82A6BEC(a)microsoft.com...
> You have answered by concerns. An image system will save a lot of work in
> the event of a disaster. If I understand the Acronis system you can make
> incremental backups (which are images/mirrors)?? And in the event you
> needed
> to restore only the data lost between the two incremental backups doing a
> restore would not restore the entire system? Can you use Acronis to do a
> transfer of all your data, apps, etc. to a new computer??
> ...


To a new disk drive? Yes, and I've done it. To a "new computer"?
Define your terms. The image you have restored, including the
entire contents of the registry, was created on a particular
hardware configuration. If it's a re-creation of the original
hardware configuration, OK. Otherwise, the devil is in the
details. I'd bet (not my money, but yours) that the applications
would probably endure the change, and that the data "almost"
certainly would. But particular applications that referenced
specific hardware/software environments (to take a simplistic
example, a TV applicaton that expected a TV tuner card to
actually be there), maybe not so much.


From: Daave on 1 Jun 2010 11:33
You are absolutely correct. Imaging your hard drive is one of the best
methods to deal with a disaster!

Because the tem "back up" is vague, unfortunately there is a lot of
confusion whenever this term is used. Many people use it in different
ways. Sometimes the best way to deal with this confusion is not to use
the term at all!

When most people use this tem, they simply mean to create a copy of
their data (such as Word documents, Excel spreadsheets, e-mails, PDFs,
Web browser favorites, MP3s, photographs, videos, etc.). People can
certainly back up their data to an external source for safe keeping.
They can even uese a program to do this and then create incremental
backups, which means only newly created data will be added to the
existing backup archive.

If you wish to "back up" your entire system, you can either create a
clone (with the result of what is like an identical twin -- another hard
drive that is, for all intents and purposes, exactly the same as the
first one; you could replace the old drive with the new, and your PC
wouldn't be able to tell the difference) or an image of the hard drive.
The image is a gigantic archive that contains everything on the original
hard drive in a format that allows you to restore it if the need should
ever arise. It accomplishes the same result as a clone but uses a
different route to get there.

The term "mirror" needs to be avoided because that is a term having to
do with RAID, which is a separate phenomenon.

With Acronis and other imaging programs, you can make an initial full
image and then subsequent incremental images. These incremental images
don't take too long because they only account for new changes to the
system (including any new data). You can schedule these incremental
images to be automatically created (e.g., once a week).

Restores are complete. It would be impossible to perform a partial or
incremental restore! But as long as you have all the different
statges/increments of the iamge, you can pick the date of the archive
you wish to use. So, if malware crept into the system three weeks ago,
you can select the date of the image prior to the infestation. That is,
if your initial Full image was made five months ago and you have a
number of subsequent incremental addidtions to that, select the date
from just before three weeks ago. That particular archive is complete;
it contains the initial full image plus all the subsequent incremental
images (but you would be purposefully avoiding the latest increments --
the ones with the malware). When you restore it, you will effectively go
back in time to three weeks ago. The only issue would be any newly
created data would not be restored. This is why many people like to also
back up data (perhaps daily).

To answer your last question, if the new computer is identical, yes.
Otherwise, maybe or maybe not. If you're lucky, it will work (for the
most part) and all you'll need to do is perform a Repair Install after
the fact.

But, really what you are talking about is migrating (that is, something
that can be seamlessly transferred to *any* PC, without the need for a
Repair Install after the fact), which is yet another function/process.
There is software that handles migrating, but Acronis True Image Home
does not do this. There is a very expensive version of Acronis that does
this. Also, Paragon Backup & Recovery 10 Suite does this:

http://www.paragon-software.com/home/brs/cat_migration.html


LewB wrote:
> You have answered by concerns. An image system will save a lot of
> work in the event of a disaster. If I understand the Acronis system
> you can make incremental backups (which are images/mirrors)?? And in
> the event you needed to restore only the data lost between the two
> incremental backups doing a restore would not restore the entire
> system? Can you use Acronis to do a transfer of all your data, apps,
> etc. to a new computer?? LJB
>
>> You seem to be equating backing up data with backing up the entire
>> system.
>>
>> Full and incremental images are *far* superior to full and
>> incremental data backups!
>>
>> Don't get me wrong; data backups have their place! But if you image
>> the entire hard drive, not only have you backed up all your data but
>> you have just made things immensely better for yourself in the event
>> you need to recover from some disaster (malware or a disastrous
>> update or corruption due to a power spike or some other reason).
>> Restoring the image is easy and once this is done, your system is
>> just as it once was -- before the disaster struck. If all you did
>> was back up data, you would need to reinstall the OS, the drivers,
>> the service packs and subsequent security patches, applications and
>> customize your settings, etc. This would take many hours of effort.
>> Restoring an image can be done ovenight without any input from you.
>>
>> Out of cuiriosity, what backup method do you prefer and use?
>>
>>
>> LewB wrote:
>>> I wasn't aware of this debacle....you are indicating that Window7
>>> will not accept a backup made with the WinXP backup apps. Hard to
>>> believe. But sticking to XP only why does Ken downgrade the backup
>>> program that
>>> comes with it? As mentioned it seems to provide the standard
>>> variety of backup choices, full, incremental, differential,
>>> etc.......so except for the absence of creating an image backup it
>>> would seem on paper to be equal to others with the exception of not
>>> being able to create a clone or a mirror backup that will include
>>> all of the apps and the OS. What am I missing here? LB
>>>
>>>> Here is one reason.....you back up all of your personal work using
>>>> XP backup and then you upgrade to W7...........and lo and behold it
>>>> uses a different backup
>>>> program and all your work just sits on the backup medium
>>>> inaccessible.
>>>>
>>>> peter
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> If you find a posting or message from me offensive,inappropriate
>>>> or disruptive,please ignore it.
>>>> If you dont know how to ignore a posting complain
>>>> to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "LewB" <whoislew(a)hotmail.com(sparethespam)> wrote in message
>>>> news:E5CE3927-D282-4BD5-BDA1-5FC62607A40D(a)microsoft.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I have been trying to sort out backup apps I have been
>>>>> reading through the prior postings and came across this one you
>>>>> authored last year.
>>>>> Why do you not support the backup that comes with XP? Doesn't it
>>>>> do full, incremental, and differential backups?? It seems to me
>>>>> the only thing it does not do that Acronis does is clone to a new
>>>>> HD and/or do a mirror backup
>>>>> to an external disc. Can you expand on your statement?
>>>>> LJB
>>>>> --
>>>>> LJB
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Ken Blake, MVP" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:29:01 -0800, Don
>>>>>> <Don(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> XP Backup is great except for the time required to select the
>>>>>>> folders to BU.
>>>>>>> Is there a way that I can save this list of folders to be backed
>>>>>>> up and eliminate having to select them each time I want to
>>>>>>> backup?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You replied to a *very* old message of mine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personally I think that the backup program which comes with XP is
>>>>>> about the poorest choice available, and I recommend against it.
>>>>>> The best backup program is Acronis TrueImage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Windows Home Server's beta is over and it's now released. As Doug
>>>>>> said in his message quoted below, is a great way to get backups
>>>>>> performed automatically, and I recommend it highly if you are
>>>>>> willing to spend the money for an extra computer as well as the
>>>>>> software.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Ken Blake, MVP" wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Doug Knox - [MS-MVP] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Ken,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You might also want to add a comment about Windows Home
>>>>>>>>>> Server, just
>>>>>>>>>> in case the user has a spare PC laying around. The beta is
>>>>>>>>>> now open
>>>>>>>>>> for the general public to apply.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://connect.microsoft.com/windowshomeserver
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Doug. I was planning on adding something about WHS to
>>>>>>>>> my standard backup message, but I'm reluctant to do it yet.
>>>>>>>>> Even if the
>>>>>>>>> beta is open to the public, I'm hesitant to recommend beta
>>>>>>>>> software.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Replying to my own post, I'd also like to wait until I have a
>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>> experience with WHS myself. Coming soon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>>>>>>>> Please reply to the newsgroup
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
>>>>>> Please Reply to the Newsgroup
>>
>>
>> .


From: Lorne on 3 Jun 2010 08:35
"LewB" <whoislew(a)hotmail.com(sparethespam)> wrote in message
news:E5CE3927-D282-4BD5-BDA1-5FC62607A40D(a)microsoft.com...
>
> Since I have been trying to sort out backup apps I have been reading
> through the prior postings and came across this one you authored last
> year.
> Why do you not support the backup that comes with XP? Doesn't it do full,
> incremental, and differential backups?? It seems to me the only thing it
> does not do that Acronis does is clone to a new HD and/or do a mirror
> backup
> to an external disc. Can you expand on your statement?
> LJB
> --
> LJB

If what you want is a backup of your user files so you can get them back if
you accidently delete something or the disk fails or you want to copy them
to a new computer or backup to a laptop so it is synced to your desktop then
I suggest you use Microsoft SyncToy (which is free).

If you want an image so you can put a new disk in the same machine and copy
the entire system (software, OS, user files, software, settings etc) or
rewrite to the old disk after a disastrous malware attack then you need a
different backup such as Acronis disk image.


From: LewB on 3 Jun 2010 20:22
Thanks for the input. Another helpful bit of info. I guess I am thinking
about both but from what I have read on this thread Acronis does both??

LJB
--
LJB


"Lorne" wrote:

> "LewB" <whoislew(a)hotmail.com(sparethespam)> wrote in message
> news:E5CE3927-D282-4BD5-BDA1-5FC62607A40D(a)microsoft.com...
> >
> > Since I have been trying to sort out backup apps I have been reading
> > through the prior postings and came across this one you authored last
> > year.
> > Why do you not support the backup that comes with XP? Doesn't it do full,
> > incremental, and differential backups?? It seems to me the only thing it
> > does not do that Acronis does is clone to a new HD and/or do a mirror
> > backup
> > to an external disc. Can you expand on your statement?
> > LJB
> > --
> > LJB
>
> If what you want is a backup of your user files so you can get them back if
> you accidently delete something or the disk fails or you want to copy them
> to a new computer or backup to a laptop so it is synced to your desktop then
> I suggest you use Microsoft SyncToy (which is free).
>
> If you want an image so you can put a new disk in the same machine and copy
> the entire system (software, OS, user files, software, settings etc) or
> rewrite to the old disk after a disastrous malware attack then you need a
> different backup such as Acronis disk image.
>
>
> .
>
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