Is this MB and CPU combo a good deal?
in [Computer]
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From: Kyote on 7 Jul 2010 00:40 I'm looking to upgrade my system. I've currently got this as my setup Via Speccy ------------------ Operating System MS Windows XP 64-bit SP2 CPU AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 105 �F NewCastle 0.13um Technology RAM 1.0GB Single-Channel DDR @ 166MHz (2.5-4-4-8) Motherboard MSI MS-6702 (Socket-754) Graphics HD2201 @ 1680x1050 128MB GeForce FX 5200 (Undefined) Hard Drives 59GB Western Digital WDC WD600BB-00CAA1 (IDE) 78GB Western Digital WDC WD80 0JD-22JNA0 SCSI Disk Device (SCSI) Optical Drives ATAPI iHAP422 8 HL-DT-ST CD-ROM GCR-8523B ATQ CH27CLAZSDMZ SCSI CdRom Device Audio Creative Audigy Audio Processor (WDM) Here's a link to a full report by Speccy (Piriform created Speccy as well as CCleaner) ------------ http://speccy.piriform.com/results/amLfFBjW1Mfy3WiKTJexJNm It was my brothers old system and it quit on him and he bought a new one and gave this to me. Turns out the sata boot drivers got screwy was all. So it's been a pretty good system for me since then. But with today's dual/quad core processors, and even higher now available, I know I need to upgrade my system. The thing is I can't afford to make mistakes. I've read several reviews on this MB and the CPU and all sounds good. But I was hoping some of you could look at the combo I'm considering and offer your opinions. I'm hoping to re-use whatever I can from my current rig with the new combo(ram,hard drives, CD burners etc...). http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6077919&CatId=2417 I know I'm also going to need a fan/heat sink and on that I also need advice. Here's the fan/heat sink I'm thinking of getting: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4662522&CatId=493 Also my power supply is 500w, brand new. Will it be good enough for this? I run Windows XP Pro and can see no reason I'll be changing my OS anytime soon. I'm mostly worried about whether or not my ram will work in the new board and if the chosen fan/heatsink will work and be sufficient? But any other constructive comments and opinions would be very much welcome. I'm wanting a x4 CPU and this looks like it might keep me gaming, watching movies, and surfing for years to come. What do you think? -- Kyote sends.hearty("Greetings!");
From: Paul on 7 Jul 2010 14:35 Kyote wrote: > I'm looking to upgrade my system. I've currently got this as my setup > > Via Speccy > ------------------ > Operating System > MS Windows XP 64-bit SP2 > CPU > AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 105 �F > NewCastle 0.13um Technology > RAM > 1.0GB Single-Channel DDR @ 166MHz (2.5-4-4-8) > Motherboard > MSI MS-6702 (Socket-754) > Graphics > HD2201 @ 1680x1050 > 128MB GeForce FX 5200 (Undefined) > Hard Drives > 59GB Western Digital WDC WD600BB-00CAA1 (IDE) > 78GB Western Digital WDC WD80 0JD-22JNA0 SCSI Disk Device > (SCSI) > Optical Drives > ATAPI iHAP422 8 > HL-DT-ST CD-ROM GCR-8523B > ATQ CH27CLAZSDMZ SCSI CdRom Device > Audio > Creative Audigy Audio Processor (WDM) > > Here's a link to a full report by Speccy > (Piriform created Speccy as well as CCleaner) > ------------ > http://speccy.piriform.com/results/amLfFBjW1Mfy3WiKTJexJNm > > It was my brothers old system and it quit on him and he bought a new > one and gave this to me. Turns out the sata boot drivers got screwy > was all. So it's been a pretty good system for me since then. But with > today's dual/quad core processors, and even higher now available, I > know I need to upgrade my system. The thing is I can't afford to make > mistakes. I've read several reviews on this MB and the CPU and all > sounds good. > > But I was hoping some of you could look at the combo I'm considering > and offer your opinions. I'm hoping to re-use whatever I can from my > current rig with the new combo(ram,hard drives, CD burners etc...). > > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6077919&CatId=2417 > > I know I'm also going to need a fan/heat sink and on that I also need > advice. Here's the fan/heat sink I'm thinking of getting: > > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4662522&CatId=493 > > Also my power supply is 500w, brand new. Will it be good enough for > this? I run Windows XP Pro and can see no reason I'll be changing my > OS anytime soon. I'm mostly worried about whether or not my ram will > work in the new board and if the chosen fan/heatsink will work and be > sufficient? But any other constructive comments and opinions would be > very much welcome. I'm wanting a x4 CPU and this looks like it might > keep me gaming, watching movies, and surfing for years to come. What > do you think? > > -- > Kyote > > sends.hearty("Greetings!"); The processor is a 125W one. It's listed as $117 on Newegg. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103644 The motherboard is $70 on Newegg. Read the customer reviews, to see what you're in for. The board has, what appears to be solid polymer caps for Vcore and for the chipset. But the DIMM regulator circuit appears to use regular electrolytic caps. Some cap manufacturers make electrolytics in solid polymer packaging (presumably, to fool consumers). The motherboard has two DIMM slots. Memory type is DDR2. Your old motherboard uses DDR, so the old RAM sticks won't fit. You'll need new RAM. A pair of RAM sticks of some sort, is recommended. I'd probably buy 2x1GB DDR2 for example. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130237 Example of some RAM. The voltage spec on these is a little high. If you loosen the timing, then the voltage can come down a bit. Or you could just get some DDR2-800 RAM that runs at 1.8V. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104008 The CPU support chart for your motherboard, shows processors up to 125 watts. The table shows what looks like two BIOS releases, but the support page doesn't list the BIOS, so I can't tell you anything about the BIOS history, and whether you're going to need to flash update the board, before the 940 processor will work. http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=prodcpusupport&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=&cat3_no=&prod_no=1883 (Manual) http://download2.msi.com/files/downloads/mnu_exe/E7549v1.7.zip The cooler you've selected, is all aluminum. There is no copper slug in the center, to aid heat movement. The processor will have its own heat spreader inside, which will help a bit. The cooler also has no heat pipes. Heat pipes make better usage of the cooling fins, as the heat pipe is an excellent conductor of heat. Heat pipes actually conduct heat better than an equivalent solid piece of copper, due to the liquid/vapor phase change used inside for transport. Your processor has a peak power dissipation of 125W. I would estimate the theta_R of that cooler as 0.20C/W or perhaps a bit higher. 125W * 0.20 = 25C temperature rise. If the room air is 25C, the air inside the computer case is 32C, then 32C + (125W * 0.20C/W) gives 57C when the CPU is flat out. Your cooler choice, could be a rebranded Xigmatek. Maybe Ultra just placed their sticker on this design. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233022 To see a picture of a similar cooler, but with a heatpipe, there is this one. But the prices on some of these, is an issue. http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/35-118-030-S02?$S640W$ Ones like this, allow using a slower fan speed, and are nice for quieter computer builds. But this one is $50. http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/35-118-059-Z04?$S640W$ I use a cooler like this one, but I can't tell you what it'll do with a 125W processor connected. I have a 65W processor on this one. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103046 Disadvantages of the GeminII S: 1) Dust tends to collect in the fins. You can easily vacuum the dust out, but be careful! My fan is attached by four screws, and you can remove the fan and screws, to clean the fins. 2) Don't attempt to wipe dust off the fan blades! I ruined the fan bearing while cleaning the fan. I had to buy a Stealth 120mm to replace the fan I ruined. Clean the heatsink, but leave that fan alone. 3) The cooler *bolts* to the motherboard, from the bottom. You have to pull the motherboard out of the computer case, to service the heatsink/fan. I've had to do that several times over the years, and it's a pain. Other than that, that one is a nice, average cooler. If you don't have thermal paste, the paste included with some coolers isn't very good. If you pick up a tube of something in your order, it'll last a long time. I still haven't used up the first tube of paste I bought. This product is only $5, because there are no silver particles in it. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100014 http://www.arcticsilver.com/PDF/thermcom/AA_MSDS_3.pdf Paul
From: Kyote on 8 Jul 2010 04:15 On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 14:35:09 -0400, Paul <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote: -Kyote wrote: -> I'm looking to upgrade my system. I've currently got this as my setup -> -> Via Speccy -> ------------------ -> Operating System -> MS Windows XP 64-bit SP2 -> CPU -> AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 105 �F -> NewCastle 0.13um Technology -> RAM -> 1.0GB Single-Channel DDR @ 166MHz (2.5-4-4-8) -> Motherboard -> MSI MS-6702 (Socket-754) -> Graphics -> HD2201 @ 1680x1050 -> 128MB GeForce FX 5200 (Undefined) -> Hard Drives -> 59GB Western Digital WDC WD600BB-00CAA1 (IDE) -> 78GB Western Digital WDC WD80 0JD-22JNA0 SCSI Disk Device -> (SCSI) -> Optical Drives -> ATAPI iHAP422 8 -> HL-DT-ST CD-ROM GCR-8523B -> ATQ CH27CLAZSDMZ SCSI CdRom Device -> Audio -> Creative Audigy Audio Processor (WDM) -> -> Here's a link to a full report by Speccy -> (Piriform created Speccy as well as CCleaner) -> ------------ -> http://speccy.piriform.com/results/amLfFBjW1Mfy3WiKTJexJNm -> -> It was my brothers old system and it quit on him and he bought a new -> one and gave this to me. Turns out the sata boot drivers got screwy -> was all. So it's been a pretty good system for me since then. But with -> today's dual/quad core processors, and even higher now available, I -> know I need to upgrade my system. The thing is I can't afford to make -> mistakes. I've read several reviews on this MB and the CPU and all -> sounds good. -> -> But I was hoping some of you could look at the combo I'm considering -> and offer your opinions. I'm hoping to re-use whatever I can from my -> current rig with the new combo(ram,hard drives, CD burners etc...). -> -> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6077919&CatId=2417 -> -> I know I'm also going to need a fan/heat sink and on that I also need -> advice. Here's the fan/heat sink I'm thinking of getting: -> -> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4662522&CatId=493 -> -> Also my power supply is 500w, brand new. Will it be good enough for -> this? I run Windows XP Pro and can see no reason I'll be changing my -> OS anytime soon. I'm mostly worried about whether or not my ram will -> work in the new board and if the chosen fan/heatsink will work and be -> sufficient? But any other constructive comments and opinions would be -> very much welcome. I'm wanting a x4 CPU and this looks like it might -> keep me gaming, watching movies, and surfing for years to come. What -> do you think? -> -> -- -> Kyote -> -> sends.hearty("Greetings!"); - -The processor is a 125W one. It's listed as $117 on Newegg. - -http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103644 - -The motherboard is $70 on Newegg. Read the customer reviews, to see -what you're in for. The board has, what appears to be solid polymer caps -for Vcore and for the chipset. But the DIMM regulator circuit appears to -use regular electrolytic caps. Some cap manufacturers make electrolytics -in solid polymer packaging (presumably, to fool consumers). The motherboard -has two DIMM slots. Memory type is DDR2. Your old motherboard uses DDR, -so the old RAM sticks won't fit. You'll need new RAM. A pair of RAM -sticks of some sort, is recommended. I'd probably buy 2x1GB DDR2 for example. - -http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130237 - -Example of some RAM. The voltage spec on these is a little high. -If you loosen the timing, then the voltage can come down a bit. -Or you could just get some DDR2-800 RAM that runs at 1.8V. - -http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104008 - -The CPU support chart for your motherboard, shows processors up to 125 watts. -The table shows what looks like two BIOS releases, but the support page -doesn't list the BIOS, so I can't tell you anything about the BIOS history, -and whether you're going to need to flash update the board, before the -940 processor will work. - -http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=prodcpusupport&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=&cat3_no=&prod_no=1883 - -(Manual) - -http://download2.msi.com/files/downloads/mnu_exe/E7549v1.7.zip - -The cooler you've selected, is all aluminum. There is no copper -slug in the center, to aid heat movement. The processor will -have its own heat spreader inside, which will help a bit. The -cooler also has no heat pipes. Heat pipes make better usage -of the cooling fins, as the heat pipe is an excellent conductor -of heat. Heat pipes actually conduct heat better than an equivalent -solid piece of copper, due to the liquid/vapor phase change used -inside for transport. Your processor has a peak power dissipation of -125W. I would estimate the theta_R of that cooler as 0.20C/W -or perhaps a bit higher. 125W * 0.20 = 25C temperature rise. -If the room air is 25C, the air inside the computer case is 32C, -then 32C + (125W * 0.20C/W) gives 57C when the CPU is flat out. - -Your cooler choice, could be a rebranded Xigmatek. Maybe -Ultra just placed their sticker on this design. - -http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233022 - -To see a picture of a similar cooler, but with a heatpipe, there -is this one. But the prices on some of these, is an issue. - -http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/35-118-030-S02?$S640W$ - -Ones like this, allow using a slower fan speed, and are nice -for quieter computer builds. But this one is $50. - -http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/35-118-059-Z04?$S640W$ - -I use a cooler like this one, but I can't tell you what it'll do with -a 125W processor connected. I have a 65W processor on this one. - -http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103046 - -Disadvantages of the GeminII S: - -1) Dust tends to collect in the fins. You can easily vacuum the dust - out, but be careful! My fan is attached by four screws, and you can - remove the fan and screws, to clean the fins. - -2) Don't attempt to wipe dust off the fan blades! I ruined the fan - bearing while cleaning the fan. I had to buy a Stealth 120mm to - replace the fan I ruined. Clean the heatsink, but leave that fan - alone. - -3) The cooler *bolts* to the motherboard, from the bottom. You have - to pull the motherboard out of the computer case, to service the - heatsink/fan. I've had to do that several times over the years, - and it's a pain. - -Other than that, that one is a nice, average cooler. - -If you don't have thermal paste, the paste included with some coolers -isn't very good. If you pick up a tube of something in your order, -it'll last a long time. I still haven't used up the first tube of -paste I bought. This product is only $5, because there are -no silver particles in it. - -http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100014 - -http://www.arcticsilver.com/PDF/thermcom/AA_MSDS_3.pdf - - Paul Paul, Thank you very VERY much for the thorough and linked response. You provided enough light to show how very little I really do know. This isn't a backhand compliment, or subtle complaint. I knew I was asking in the right place for help. I've added in the things you mentioned and it looks like I'll need another $100 to get it all, from newegg too. But if I hadn't asked I'd have the combo and it'd have to sit in the box until I could finally afford to get new ram to go with it. When I get this I wont be able to upgrade it any, or replace it, for at a minimum of 3yrs. Probably more like 5yrs... lol I want a quad since it seems a lot of the newer games are starting to require dual(duos?) and I'm expecting things to keep going that way. So I figure a quad core will allow me to play my older stuff as well as newer games. After saying that, I'm not into high end games. I've never been all that interested in 3d shooters. RTS's and RPG's tend to be more my speed. I even enjoy playing The Sims 2 and I'd like to play 3 sometime too. I don't plan to OC. But from what I've read this MB CPU combo is good if I wanted to try doing so. This is just to give a bit of background for my next question... With all the above in mind, is there a better MB and CPU(possibly ram and heatsink/fan as well) you'd recommend for the same or a cheaper price? I've even considered getting a dual core instead since it'd drop my price by quite a bit. But I'm afraid I'd be in the same boat I'm in now, out dated and unable to play new games in a year or two. I can hold off and buy all the above in a few months if that's what it'll take. By then it should be a bit cheaper anyway. But, and I shouldn't think this way, if a surprise bill comes along it'll eat my savings up because I always pay my bills first and worry about fun last. So far I'm gonna wait so I can get my mb/cpu, along with the ram, heatsink/fan, and paste you mentioned. By the way, I'm in no hurry. Thank you again for the previous response. -- Kyote sends.hearty("Greetings!");
From: Paul on 8 Jul 2010 05:28 Kyote wrote: <<snippage>> > > I've even considered getting a dual core instead since it'd drop my > price by quite a bit. But I'm afraid I'd be in the same boat I'm in > now, out dated and unable to play new games in a year or two. I can > hold off and buy all the above in a few months if that's what it'll > take. By then it should be a bit cheaper anyway. But, and I shouldn't > think this way, if a surprise bill comes along it'll eat my savings up > because I always pay my bills first and worry about fun last. > > Kyote I tried to do what you're doing. I went from an S478 DDR system with AGP slot, to an LGA775 (those are Intel). I found a motherboard with an AGP video slot, took DDR memory, and could take a new Intel processor. But it had some shortcomings, that became more apparent the longer I had it. I ended up replacing some of the components, yet again. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157115 That board would only take two sticks of RAM, but supported both DDR and DDR2. It has an AGP slot, for an older video card (which I used), plus a PCI Express slot. The PCI Express slot is only wired with x4 lanes, which is roughly equivalent to AGP 4X rates. Some people had problems getting PCI Express video cards to work in it, and there is a list of "compatible" video cards. The thing is, when you locate a "niche" motherboard like that, one that bridges generations, you don't get a lot of choice. There may be 100 motherboard designs with only "modern" slots in them, for every 1 motherboard that bridges generations of hardware. So you don't have many shopping choices. The biggest downfall of that motherboard, was the quality of the BIOS. I have a suspicion Intel may have played a hand in ruining the design of it. I think my upgrade cost about $300 or so, and it did end up being a lot faster than what I had previously. But in terms of being future proof, it didn't go far enough in the future direction. I did appreciate some of the little things, that were on that board. When I needed an RS232 port, there was one in the I/O connector area. For my latest system, I had to buy a USB to RS232 adapter, and that isn't nearly as convenient. (Since the USB ports run from +5VSB, if I suspend the computer, the USB to RS232 adapters stay powered. I don't really want that to happen, but I'm not going to unplug them every time either.) So on the plus side, going with modern components, may allow you to make upgrades. For example, with AMD you have choices like dual, triple, quad, or hex core processors. With the right motherboard, you could use any of those. On the minus side, some of the newer boards are missing the small items, like serial ports, parallel ports (for an old printer), some are even missing PS/2 connectors. I still like to see PS/2 connectors, and I have only one PS/2 on my current system. My mouse is USB, but under high load, sometimes the mouse doesn't respond immediately. I didn't have that problem with the Asrock motherboard, as it still had two PS/2 connectors. I've never had a problem with PS/2 and responsiveness or lag issues. If you don't have enough money to "do it right", hold off for a year and there will still be a system for you to purchase. I'm more worried about good games coming out, than about finding hardware :-) I'm not that crazy about games where there is a high "Internet" component, such as monthly fees, registration and the like. It looks like I'm a dying breed... When I got my last motherboard (the "modern" one), I had to say goodbye to my AGP video card, and buy a PCI Express one. I got lucky, and got a video card for $65. The manufacturer was getting out of the video card business, which is why it was a bargain. So that is another expense, with getting the "modern" motherboard. You don't get to keep very much of your old stuff. As for the power supply, I'm using a 460W supply right now, and I probably don't use more than half of it. Modern supplies tend to have more +12V output capability, which is a better match for the modern hardware. Check your supply and see whether it has PCI Express power connectors or not. Mine has two, and a low end video card would use zero or one of those, while a high end card might need two connectors. (A high end power supply, has four PCI Express connectors on it, for SLI setups.) To encourage you getting the right size of supply, the PCI Express connector count will get you in the right ballpark on power. As long as you're not planning on buying a GTX 480 or the like, your 500W might be enough. My video card is 48 watts, while a high end video card is 260 watts. The video card can make a difference, to whether the power supply is enough. Your processor choice was 125W, but a high end video card, at 260W, makes an even bigger difference. The 260W one would also make your computer case a bit harder to keep cool. Paul
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