Lisp and software architecture
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From: Ken Tilton on 8 Mar 2006 12:40 Sacha wrote: > <snip> > >>>, so i'm building yet another pricelist using lisp. >>>To say the truth, it looks like it'll eventually be quite the same thing >>>as my other implementations. >> >>Most newbies in your situation are sharp enough to say, "Hey, my Lisp code >>looks just like my C code, what am I doing wrong?" Your grand conclusion >>is that Lisp is no different than C. Hmmmmm.... >> > > > I knew this post would be controversial.. > > >>"Hey, my Lisp code looks just like my C code, what am I doing wrong?" > > > My post was sort of admiting a failure. Oh, I saw the "sort of". Too sorty for my taste. :) > Maybe should i tackle something > different, get out of the track, then go back to the price list problem when > i'll be able to make it more idiomatic. > > Wade Humeniuk suggested going the DSL path , so i'll give it a try first. Nah, nobody really writes DSLs. We do what Graham says: build up to the problem domain with a macro here and a macro there, all swimming around in straight CL. You should have listened to my suggestion, if you noticed it. :) ken
From: William Bland on 8 Mar 2006 12:44 On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:47:05 -0800, billclem wrote: >> Next month I'm goin to be giving a talk[1] about the effect of >> programming language on software architecture. <snip> >> [1] April 26th at the Software Architecture and Modeling SIG of >> SDForum in Palo Alto Excellent - I hope to be able to attend. > You might want to consider using a Design Patterns based approach to > showing how the choice of a programming language can affect how you > look at a problem from an architectural and modeling standpoint. Agreed. I have often surprised people at work by showing them how some of the patterns that are needed in Java are actually "built in" to Lisp (or at least much less hassle to implement there). This does seem to to get people interested. > ... the choice of a programming language can subconsciously influence > your architectural design choices (e.g. - things that are "really hard" > to do in one programming language but easy to do in another programming > language result in different architectural approaches being taken in the > design of the solution). Absolutely agreed. The biggest difference between me doing Java architecture and Lisp architecture is that when I'm doing Java, I constantly discard potential architectures as being too much work to implement and maintain. When I'm doing Lisp I don't find myself doing that so much, and I can focus on the more important differences between potential architectures. Best wishes, Bill.
From: Sacha on 8 Mar 2006 12:50 > Nah, nobody really writes DSLs. We do what Graham says: build up to the > problem domain with a macro here and a macro there, all swimming around in > straight CL. That was my first idea, and that's how i get something very close to a c++ solution. > You should have listened to my suggestion, if you noticed it. :) > I'm not goind to post my code (too ugly i guess) and ask you guys to do my home work. What would be the educational value ? Anyways, thanks for your time, there's no secret, i need to go back to the drawing board and work out my RSIs. Sacha
From: Ken Tilton on 8 Mar 2006 14:46 Sacha wrote: >>Nah, nobody really writes DSLs. We do what Graham says: build up to the >>problem domain with a macro here and a macro there, all swimming around in >>straight CL. > > > That was my first idea, and that's how i get something very close to a c++ > solution. > > >>You should have listened to my suggestion, if you noticed it. :) >> > > > I'm not goind to post my code (too ugly i guess) OK, so now you are not "sort of" taking the blame for writing C in Lisp, you are taking all the credit. I see growth! > and ask you guys to do my > home work. > What would be the educational value ? Learning? From experts? We won't do the hard work, just the fun redesign ideas. You failed once to break with the past on your own, why not get some help? There are an awful lot of "thanks, everybody!" posts piling up in the c.l.l archive. > > Anyways, thanks for your time, there's no secret, i need to go back to the > drawing board and work out my RSIs. Oh, well. Best of luck. I doubt you will succeed. I mentored an incredibly good programmer during the Google Summer of Code, but he put the configuration code in an external BLAH.def text file (with non-Lispy syntax) which he then opened, read, and parsed in Lisp so his WOMP engine could handle his BLAH project. I asked him why he did not just write a defwomp macro? His response was basically, Doh! He probably would have gotten there a year later once The Lisp Way sunk in. Did a whack from the Lisp stick diminish the quality of his enlightenment? Nah, the suddenness of the realization makes the lesson stick as well as having the same epiphany after months of living with external config files. ken
From: Matthew D Swank on 8 Mar 2006 14:47
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 12:36:03 -0500, Ken Tilton wrote: > ps. Thanks for the fat pitch. :) When is "Cells III, Cells in 3D" due to be committed? Matt -- "You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother." ? Albert Einstein. |