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From: Jim Brain on 13 Nov 2009 20:26
David Murray wrote:
>> maybe it makes more sense to build an adaptor that converts a PS/2
>> mouse into a 1531 compatible mouse and plugs into the joystick port.
>
> Hmm.. Seems we have a concensus.. Everybody wants to plug it into
> their existing joystick port. Okay, I understand the benefit of
> this. But I should point out that the hardware to do this is much
> more expensive. A good example is the device already being sold for
> this purpose which costs around $40. My design would cost only $1.49

I might be able to offer a design for $10-$15... If Nick can tell me
where he gets that low profile DE-9 connector for 64JPX.

Would that be of interest?

Jim
From: Tom on 14 Nov 2009 00:19
In article <p-mdnQSo2dRffWDXnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d(a)westnet.com.au>, Mark McDougall <msmcdoug(a)no.spam.iinet> wrote:
>David Murray wrote:
>
>> Hmm.. Seems we have a concensus.. Everybody wants to plug it into
>> their existing joystick port. Okay, I understand the benefit of
>> this. But I should point out that the hardware to do this is much
>> more expensive. A good example is the device already being sold for
>> this purpose which costs around $40.
>
>IMHO this is by _far_ the best option, as it gives instant compatibility
>with all exsiting mouse software. I don't think $40 is unreasonable given
>the nature of the product either - I made a small batch of Amiga PS/2
>adapters and it cost just about that to manufacture each one.
>
>> Also I believe direct interaction with the PS/2 mouse would
>> give more reliable and accurate results.
>
>I've never used a C64 mouse, but I gather you're implying that the mouse is
>_not_ as smooth & accurate as the PS/2 version - yes??? Then perhaps the
>inaccuracies are inherent in the original mouse itself, rather than the
>protocol and/or frequency at which the mouse is sampled? In that case, using
>a PS/2 adapter would alleviate those problems.

I included a PS/2 to 1531 converter in my keyboard adapter:
http://www.divshare.com/download/3749836-3fa
and I've found the smoothness and accuracy to be very good using the stock
1531 driver that comes with GEOS. In terms of cost, if you only want the mouse
adapter without the keyboard adapter, then a single chip solution would work.
Total parts cost should be under $10 in low quantities.

Connecting directly to the user port should be OK as well. If you use the
built-in serial port in the CIA then you shouldn't need to worry about bad
scan lines since you'll have around 600 us between interrupts. The only two
issues are the inverted clock polarity and the fact that the mouse sends 11
bits per byte while it CIA receives 8 bits per byte. The latter is not a
problem if you set up the mouse to use the 4-byte Intellimouse mode and simply
ignore the Z-values.
From: Jim Brain on 14 Nov 2009 17:05
Jim Brain wrote:
> David Murray wrote:
>>> maybe it makes more sense to build an adaptor that converts a PS/2
>>> mouse into a 1531 compatible mouse and plugs into the joystick port.
>>
>> Hmm.. Seems we have a concensus.. Everybody wants to plug it into
>> their existing joystick port. Okay, I understand the benefit of
>> this. But I should point out that the hardware to do this is much
>> more expensive. A good example is the device already being sold for
>> this purpose which costs around $40. My design would cost only $1.49
>
> I might be able to offer a design for $10-$15... If Nick can tell me
> where he gets that low profile DE-9 connector for 64JPX.
>
> Would that be of interest?
>
> Jim
Looks like someone beat me to it:

http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32010&highlight=&sid=69a7d7a668f5693567a0d3a29226ce94

Jim
From: Nick on 15 Nov 2009 09:24
> http://galaxy22.dyndns.org/dtv/common/ps2mouse/index.html
>
> So my question is this.. if I got this working, would anyone else have
> any software they've written which could benefit?  Or any software
> planned to be written which could use it?

Hi David,
This project of yours always sounded interesting - but never got
around to trying as not applicable to a real C64.

The obvious candidate is GEOS, but depends on the coding footprint to
create a driver. From what I've worked out, you have around ~330bytes
of space to play in for a GEOS input driver (not including pointer
sprite shape definition).

Cheers,
Nick
From: Groepaz on 15 Nov 2009 12:38
David Murray wrote:

> However, since I'm still highly considering making a real-time
> strategy game for the C64, something akin to StarCraft, mouse support
> is apparently needed. I could obviously add support for the 1351 but
> I don't even own one anymore and I think they are getting pretty
> rare. So I was thinking about re-visiting the PS/2 mouse driver
> issue and seeing if I could get it to work on a real C64. The
> hardware to connect the mouse would be extremely simple and cheap. So
> it would be available to everyone at very low cost. Plus you could use
> fancy optical mice, cordless mice, etc.
>
> So my question is this.. if I got this working, would anyone else have
> any software they've written which could benefit? Or any software
> planned to be written which could use it?

i seriously dont see the point on using a custom interface for this... 1351
mice are not rare at all, and everyone who ever wants to use a mouse at his
c64 probably has one by now. also there are cheap interfaces to connect any
ps/2 mouse.

if you use your own interface, your target audience is: 1 - you

--

http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org

Man kann garnicht so dumm denken wie es manchmal kommt.


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