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From: Andrew Aronoff on 10 Feb 2007 12:28
I'm dealing with a Quantum Fireball lct15 (15 GB) hard disk that won't
boot into Windows XP but for which all diagnostic tools show normal
operation. I'd like to understand what might be wrong with the drive.

Windows XP Pro is installed into a 12 GB primary FAT32 partition.
There is also a 3 GB extended partition with one logical FAT32 drive.

I know that the WXP install worked for several years. Then, suddenly,
startup became impossible due to a cyclic reboot. No hardware or
software install preceded the startup fault.

The disk was removed and installed in a test bed. The drive was
alternatively booted [BOOT] or used as a secondary hard drive [2�]
under Windows 2000. The following tests were performed:

1. [BOOT] When automatic restart was disabled at system failure, the
error was identified as a STOP 0x7B (INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE).

2. [2�] A virus check was performed -- no infection was found.

3. [2�] CHKDSK /F -- showed no errors.

4. Recovery Console was entered from an XP Pro install CD to run
FIXBOOT and FIXMBR -- no effect.

5. [BOOT] The STOP 0x7B error was avoided if FASTFAT.SYS, the FAT
driver, was not present, but Windows, of course, could not boot.

6. [BOOT] No boot log can be produced, which means that the FAT driver
never finishes loading so that data can be written. (When Safe Mode is
requested, the last driver that displays is MUP.SYS, but this is not
the culprit.)

7. [2�] Data can be read and written without error.

8. The partition data was backed up, the disk was erased,
repartitioned and reformatted, and the data was restored -- Windows XP
still rebooted with a STOP 0x7B error.

9. Norton Partition Magic 8.0 was used to create a new 6.0 GB primary
FAT32 partition at the beginning of the disk and a Windows XP install
was attempted on the empty partition -- the install terminated with a
STOP 0x7B error.

10. Maxtor PowerMax 4.23 was run from a diskette and all tests were
run -- no errors were found.

The drive shows no problem with any diagnostic tool, data can be read
and written to the drive without any apparent problem, but Windows XP
can't be installed to a FAT32 partition and an existing Windows XP
install won't boot due to a cyclic STOP 0x7B error.

What could be the problem with this drive?

regards, Andy
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From: Rod Speed on 10 Feb 2007 13:23
Andrew Aronoff <NOSPAM_WRONG.ADDRESS(a)yahoo.com> wrote

> I'm dealing with a Quantum Fireball lct15 (15 GB) hard disk that won't
> boot into Windows XP but for which all diagnostic tools show normal
> operation. I'd like to understand what might be wrong with the drive.

> Windows XP Pro is installed into a 12 GB primary FAT32 partition.
> There is also a 3 GB extended partition with one logical FAT32 drive.

> I know that the WXP install worked for several years. Then,
> suddenly, startup became impossible due to a cyclic reboot.

XP reboots on serious errors, and thats hardly ever a hard drive problem.

You'd normally disable the auto reboot, but it doesnt get far enough to allow that.

> No hardware or software install preceded the startup fault.

> The disk was removed and installed in a test bed. The drive was
> alternatively booted [BOOT] or used as a secondary hard drive [2�]
> under Windows 2000. The following tests were performed:

> 1. [BOOT] When automatic restart was disabled at system failure, the
> error was identified as a STOP 0x7B (INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE).

That is due to the fact that you cant normally boot a member of the NT/2K/XP
family drive in a different system, it doesnt have the correct chipset drivers.

> 2. [2�] A virus check was performed -- no infection was found.

> 3. [2�] CHKDSK /F -- showed no errors.

So there is no evidence that the hard drive has a
problem, particularly when the diagnostic is fine too.

> 4. Recovery Console was entered from an XP Pro
> install CD to run FIXBOOT and FIXMBR -- no effect.

It wont be that, thats only useful if it whines about an inability to boot.

> 5. [BOOT] The STOP 0x7B error was avoided if FASTFAT.SYS, the
> FAT driver, was not present, but Windows, of course, could not boot.

> 6. [BOOT] No boot log can be produced, which means that the FAT driver
> never finishes loading so that data can be written. (When Safe Mode is
> requested, the last driver that displays is MUP.SYS, but this is not the culprit.)

More evidence of memory thats gone bad or bad caps on the motherboard.
Might be a bad power supply, those can produce the weirdest symptoms.

> 7. [2�] Data can be read and written without error.

> 8. The partition data was backed up, the disk was erased,
> repartitioned and reformatted, and the data was restored --
> Windows XP still rebooted with a STOP 0x7B error.

> 9. Norton Partition Magic 8.0 was used to create a new 6.0 GB primary
> FAT32 partition at the beginning of the disk and a Windows XP install
> was attempted on the empty partition -- the install terminated with a
> STOP 0x7B error.

> 10. Maxtor PowerMax 4.23 was run from a diskette and all tests were
> run -- no errors were found.

> The drive shows no problem with any diagnostic tool, data can be read
> and written to the drive without any apparent problem, but Windows XP
> can't be installed to a FAT32 partition and an existing Windows XP
> install won't boot due to a cyclic STOP 0x7B error.

> What could be the problem with this drive?

There's unlikely to be any problem with the drive. Most likely the motherboard
has bad caps, check for that first. These are the usually blue or black plastic
covered post like things that stick up vertically from the motherboard surface.
The tops should be flat. If any have bulged or have leaked, thats a bad cap.

Try booting a memtest86 CD and if it boots, do an overnight memory
test if it doesnt fail straight away. Less likely than the bad caps, since
that wont usually show up after running fine for years.

If neither of those helps, try booting a knoppix live CD. That completely
eliminates the hard drive from the equation and if the system wont boot
that, its pretty clear evidence of a fundamental problem elsewhere.

If all that fails, try another power supply. Excessive ripple on the
rails can produce the weirdest symptoms, particularly with an
older system thats not producing the Vcore from the 12V rail.

If all that fails, most likely its still bad caps, just not visibly bad yet,
but its worth trying the motherboard loose on the desktop before
replacing it or binning the system, a short to case can produce
the wierdest symptoms depending on whats got shorted and running
it loose on the desktop is the best way to eliminate shorts to case.


From: Andrew Aronoff on 10 Feb 2007 14:52
Hi, Rod.

Thanks for your reply.

>That is due to the fact that you cant normally boot a member of the NT/2K/XP
>family drive in a different system, it doesnt have the correct chipset drivers.

Yes, I know a full boot can't be performed, but one can usually get to
the boot logo or even the Welcome Screen. Also, the boot log, if
requested, most likely should be found. With this disk, FASTFAT.SYS
can't be loaded, which has nothing to do with the chipset. If
FASTFAT.SYS is not present, the boot hangs without the STOP 0x7B
error.

>So there is no evidence that the hard drive has a
>problem, particularly when the diagnostic is fine too.

Well, there is indeed such evidence. See item 9 in my original post
(or below).

>More evidence of memory thats gone bad or bad caps on the motherboard.
>Might be a bad power supply, those can produce the weirdest symptoms.

These tests were all being run on a test bed, on which there are no
hardware problems whatsoever.

KEY ITEM FOLLOWS:

>> 9. Norton Partition Magic 8.0 was used to create a new 6.0 GB primary
>> FAT32 partition at the beginning of the disk and a Windows XP install
>> was attempted on the empty partition -- the install terminated with a
>> STOP 0x7B error.

If, in the test bed PC, XP can't be installed to an empty partition
due to a STOP 0x7B error, what's the problem with the drive?

>There's unlikely to be any problem with the drive. Most likely the motherboard
>has bad caps, check for that first.

Again, this is a perfectly fine test bed; other OS's are routinely
installed on other drives.

>Try booting a memtest86 CD...

The test bed memory has no problems.

>If neither of those helps, try booting a knoppix live CD.

The problem box boots fine with a BartPE CD, which rules out
everything except the drive itself and the Windows install. Since I
can't reinstall Windows in the test bed PC to an empty partition on
the problem drive, the existing install is not implicated. So what's
left?

> ... pretty clear evidence of a fundamental problem elsewhere.

Not at all clear where, given item 9 above.

>If all that fails, try another power supply.

Definitely not a PS problem on the test bed.

>If all that fails, most likely its still bad caps

Again, not on the test bed. So what can the problem be?

regards, Andy
--
**********

Please send e-mail to: usenet (dot) post (at) aaronoff (dot) com

To identify everything that starts up with Windows, download
"Silent Runners.vbs" at www.silentrunners.org

**********
From: Andrew Aronoff on 10 Feb 2007 16:14
Hi, Rod.

>Where XP is installed partition wise is a separate issue to
>where the early boot components are stored on that drive.

What do you mean by "early boot components"?

>Presumably the early boot components are what are
>producing the STOP 0x7B error and not the fresh XP install.

>I bet if you wipe the drive, using something like clearhdd, then do a
>clean install of XP on that drive in the test system, it will install fine.

The drive was effectively wiped already under W2K Disk Manager -- all
partitions were erased, the disk was repartitioned and reformatted.
The original data was copied back to the new partitions. Then,
Partition Magic was used to move and resize the main partition,
creating a new partition at the beginning of the drive. The XP install
attempt was made to the new partition.

>> Since I can't reinstall Windows in the test bed PC to an empty
>> partition on the problem drive, the existing install is not implicated.
>
>Yes it is with the early boot phase stuff.

I'd really like to understand what you mean by "early boot phase
stuff."

>The early boot phase stuff. I'd try wiping the drive with something
>like clearhdd in the test machine and try a clean install on that.

It's not at all clear why clearhdd would work any better than W2K Disk
Manager.

IIUC, clearhdd is like the old IBM WIPE.COM utility, which zeros the
drive. (IBM's ZAP.COM removed the MBR.)

Disk Manager doesn't erase the drive, but, AFAICT, it certainly
removes all "early boot phase stuff." That is, after using Disk
Manager to remove all partitions, the drive is most definitely not
bootable.

>If that still produces the STOP 0x7B error, I'd ensure that the
>same cable isnt being used with that drive in both systems.

The same cable is not being used. My test bed uses dedicated equipment
except for the component being tested.

>If that still produces the STOP 0x7B error I'd check the jumpering, you
>can see some drives work with wrong jumpering but not all the time.

Jumpering was checked and is correct. IAC, the disk was a master in
the problem PC for years and is again a master on the secondary IDE
channel in the test bed. The jumpering was not changed, but the jumper
was removed and reinserted.

>If that doesnt help, toss the hard drive in the bin, its
>too small to be much use now anyway and its unlikely
>that any diagnosis will allow you to fix it anyway.

The drive will most certainly be tossed, but I'd like to understand
the nature of the problem first.

BTW, thanks very much for your insights.

regards, Andy
--
**********

Please send e-mail to: usenet (dot) post (at) aaronoff (dot) com

To identify everything that starts up with Windows, download
"Silent Runners.vbs" at www.silentrunners.org

**********
From: Mike Tomlinson on 11 Feb 2007 03:59
In article <tc7ss2dfb2cbeuj6thphqvocf7moftifl2(a)4ax.com>, Andrew Aronoff
<NOSPAM_WRONG.ADDRESS(a)yahoo.com> writes

>Yes, I know a full boot can't be performed, but one can usually get to
>the boot logo or even the Welcome Screen.

Not if the IDE controller driver is the wrong one, you can't.

You're getting the STOP 0x7B error because the drive has been moved to a
system with a different IDE controller chip or chipset. If you are able
to return the drive to the original system and boot it, then use Device
Mangler to change the IDE controllers to the generic Microsoft ones, the
drive will then boot okay on the other computer.

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