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From: Jochen Kalmbach [MVP] on 7 May 2010 09:50 Hi Hector! >> Why not just stay here? > > But there is a main HOP source. There still needs to a common source. No. NNTP is a peer-to-peer system... there is no "main"... >> So just change your news-provider and everything will work as today. > > And given the fact that the new systems were not merged anyway, the only > real lost is the Microsoft NNTP server. Exactly! -- Greetings Jochen My blog about Win32 and .NET http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/
From: Pavel A. on 7 May 2010 10:02 "Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]" <nospam-news(a)kalmbach-software.de> wrote in message news:#SwHHJb7KHA.1888(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Hi Pavel! > >> Any thoughts on where we can migrate from here - besides of the web-based >> MSDN forums?. > > Why not just stay here? > You only need to use a different news-server than news.microsoft.com. > But the group will still exist in the future. And the groups will still be > peered to other news-servers. > NNTP is a peer-to-peer system, so the down of news.microsoft.com will not > matter. > > So just change your news-provider and everything will work as today. > > -- > Greetings > Jochen > > My blog about Win32 and .NET > http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/ Thank you Jochen and Mr. Burn, I share concerns expressed by Hector Santos, that MS won't like Google or others carrying their newsgroups. The distributed and free Usenet has its merits, but these techical NGs are focused on Microsoft ecosystem, so naturally they better should stay with Microsoft. If we can continue to use newsreaders rather than web interface (with all due respect to AJAX....) and still conect to the central MS server, then this bridge indeed looks like a good solution for me. Thanks, -- pa
From: hector on 7 May 2010 11:13 "Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]" <nospam-news(a)kalmbach-software.de> wrote in message news:eRXK0we7KHA.356(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Hi Hector! > >>> Why not just stay here? >> >> But there is a main HOP source. There still needs to a common source. > > No. NNTP is a peer-to-peer system... there is no "main"... Jochen, we are vendors of NNTP software. In addition, we are providers of newsgroups for our technical support where we have other customers gating the technical support news mail into their servers and so on. Of course there is a MAIN source. It has to start from somewhere. Most PEERS are going to start with the MAIN source, others will use a mirror. The topology is more like a star network where you main have many hubs. But there is a main HUB source which is not going to be gating to other servers. In other words, if you post on the MAIN (Microsoft), they are not exporting it to others - others servers are importing it. And so on. That means once this main hub is lost, so are its end users. They will have to go to another hub, but these hubs will now lose the MAIN source of input. >>> So just change your news-provider and everything will work as today. >> >> And given the fact that the new systems were not merged anyway, the only >> real lost is the Microsoft NNTP server. > > Exactly! Plus the lost of the nodes (users) off the star hub. Do not take it for granted the that world of users take complete openness to user external or 3rd party servers as a given. Maybe I'm old school but there are MANY people who prefer to stick with the resources and solutions that Microsoft offers. There is a reason why they even bothered to post the announcement here, even though the storage was already separate from the new MS Forums storage and they already have began to create and migrate customers there. Quite frankly if I was more aware of the fact that the two storages were not one, I probably would of left this venue long ago. Buts that me, I'm old school - I don't use 3rd party solutions. Its either Microsoft or we write it. That said, the MS related information has grown rich outside of Microsoft so it does help many and for that reason, maybe, it won't change much. You would hope not, but you don't know for sure until the plug is actually pulled from the wall and people actually began to feel that something is no longer the same. That is why the NNTP Bridge is important for Microsoft. My only concern there is that it's a 3rd party tool and they might be underestimating how important it will be for to minimize the impact on people's long time usage of the Microsoft NNTP based newsgroups.
From: Hector Santos on 7 May 2010 11:33 Example: You are ASSUMING that if you use server XYZ, that it will propagate to all the HUBS when one one is pulled from the star network. N5 U1 U2 | | / N4-N3-N2 -- N0 -- U3 | | \ N6 N1 Ui | N8 - N8 - N9 - N11 - N12 | N10 If you consider Microsoft is N0 with its thousands of Ui users, once N0is gone, N1 and N2 will lost its source. Now, yes, N2 and N1 will will have to get different hubs. But there is now a HUGE lost of N0 information. And lets not assume google.groups is pulling mail from another source other than N0. If google is N1, N2 and its star chain is LOST. hector wrote: > > > "Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]" <nospam-news(a)kalmbach-software.de> wrote in > message news:eRXK0we7KHA.356(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Hi Hector! >> >>>> Why not just stay here? >>> >>> But there is a main HOP source. There still needs to a common source. >> >> No. NNTP is a peer-to-peer system... there is no "main"... > > Jochen, we are vendors of NNTP software. In addition, we are providers > of newsgroups for our technical support where we have other customers > gating the technical support news mail into their servers and so on. > > Of course there is a MAIN source. It has to start from somewhere. Most > PEERS are going to start with the MAIN source, others will use a mirror. > The topology is more like a star network where you main have many hubs. > But there is a main HUB source which is not going to be gating to other > servers. > > In other words, if you post on the MAIN (Microsoft), they are not > exporting it to others - others servers are importing it. And so on. > > That means once this main hub is lost, so are its end users. They will > have to go to another hub, but these hubs will now lose the MAIN source > of input. > >>>> So just change your news-provider and everything will work as today. >>> >>> And given the fact that the new systems were not merged anyway, the >>> only real lost is the Microsoft NNTP server. >> >> Exactly! > > Plus the lost of the nodes (users) off the star hub. > > Do not take it for granted the that world of users take complete > openness to user external or 3rd party servers as a given. > > Maybe I'm old school but there are MANY people who prefer to stick with > the resources and solutions that Microsoft offers. There is a reason > why they even bothered to post the announcement here, even though the > storage was already separate from the new MS Forums storage and they > already have began to create and migrate customers there. > > Quite frankly if I was more aware of the fact that the two storages were > not one, I probably would of left this venue long ago. Buts that me, > I'm old school - I don't use 3rd party solutions. Its either Microsoft > or we write it. > > That said, the MS related information has grown rich outside of > Microsoft so it does help many and for that reason, maybe, it won't > change much. > > You would hope not, but you don't know for sure until the plug is > actually pulled from the wall and people actually began to feel that > something is no longer the same. > > That is why the NNTP Bridge is important for Microsoft. My only > concern there is that it's a 3rd party tool and they might be > underestimating how important it will be for to minimize the impact on > people's long time usage of the Microsoft NNTP based newsgroups. > > -- HLS
From: John John - MVP on 7 May 2010 12:08
hector wrote: > > > "Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]" <nospam-news(a)kalmbach-software.de> wrote in > message news:eRXK0we7KHA.356(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Hi Hector! >> >>>> Why not just stay here? >>> >>> But there is a main HOP source. There still needs to a common source. >> >> No. NNTP is a peer-to-peer system... there is no "main"... > > Jochen, we are vendors of NNTP software. And that software is? John |