Will PHP ever "grow up" and have threading?
in [General]
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From: "Daevid Vincent" on 22 Mar 2010 20:02 I've been using PHP for a decade or so (since PHP/FI) and love it. The one problem that seems to always keep coming back on enterprise level projects is the lack of threading. This always means we have to write some back-end code in Ruby or Java or C/C++ and some hacky database layer or DBUS or something to communicate with PHP. Will PHP ever have proper threading? It would sure let the language take the next logical leap to writing applications and daemons. I love the idea that Rails/Ruby have where you can just load objects in memory once and keep using them from page to page (this is NOT the same as a $_SESSION, it's way more flexible and powerful). But more importantly, in one application I'm working on, we need to connect to an Asterisk system for the IVR abilities. This means we have Ruby doing all that fun stuff and PHP doing the web stuff, but we're also duplicating a LOT of work. Both Ruby AND PHP now have to have ORMs for the user who's calling in, advertisements served, products shown, etc. We could have used Rails for the web portion, but I want to stay with PHP and I'm sure I don't have to explain to you PHPers why that is. Without threads, PHP just isn't even an option or only one user would be able to call in at a time. The pcntl stuff is not feasible. It's a hack at best. Spawning multiple scripts is also a recipie for disaster. When will the PHP core-devs (Zend?) realize that PHP is much more than a hook to a database. It's much more than web pages. Is this a case of "it's too hard"? Or is it a case of PHP core developers just being douche-bags like they are about the whole "foo($set_this_parameter=$bar);" bull$hit??! (there is NO reason NOT to let the developer choose WHICH of the list of parameters they want to set in a function/method call aside from being stubborn! Especially when there are many parameters and you can't overload functions like you can in Java or other typed languages) As usual, I created a poll here too: http://www.rapidpoll.net/awp1ocy Past polls are below: http://www.rapidpoll.net/8opnt1e http://www.rapidpoll.net/arc1opy (although someone hacked this poll and loaded up the 76 votes like a little cheater)
From: Larry Garfield on 22 Mar 2010 20:38 Perhaps if you asked a question you'd get an answer rather than coming off as an angry immature crybaby in your last paragraph... No, I'm not going to dignify your post with a real answer. Come back when you can ask a real question and maybe you'll get a real answer. --Larry Garfield On Monday 22 March 2010 07:02:30 pm Daevid Vincent wrote: > I've been using PHP for a decade or so (since PHP/FI) and love it. The one > problem that seems to always keep coming back on enterprise level projects > is the lack of threading. This always means we have to write some back-end > code in Ruby or Java or C/C++ and some hacky database layer or DBUS or > something to communicate with PHP. > > Will PHP ever have proper threading? It would sure let the language take > the next logical leap to writing applications and daemons. I love the idea > that Rails/Ruby have where you can just load objects in memory once and > keep using them from page to page (this is NOT the same as a $_SESSION, > it's way more flexible and powerful). > > But more importantly, in one application I'm working on, we need to connect > to an Asterisk system for the IVR abilities. This means we have Ruby doing > all that fun stuff and PHP doing the web stuff, but we're also duplicating > a LOT of work. Both Ruby AND PHP now have to have ORMs for the user who's > calling in, advertisements served, products shown, etc. We could have used > Rails for the web portion, but I want to stay with PHP and I'm sure I don't > have to explain to you PHPers why that is. Without threads, PHP just isn't > even an option or only one user would be able to call in at a time. > > The pcntl stuff is not feasible. It's a hack at best. Spawning multiple > scripts is also a recipie for disaster. > > When will the PHP core-devs (Zend?) realize that PHP is much more than a > hook to a database. It's much more than web pages. > > Is this a case of "it's too hard"? Or is it a case of PHP core developers > just being douche-bags like they are about the whole > "foo($set_this_parameter=$bar);" bull$hit??! (there is NO reason NOT to let > the developer choose WHICH of the list of parameters they want to set in a > function/method call aside from being stubborn! Especially when there are > many parameters and you can't overload functions like you can in Java or > other typed languages) > > As usual, I created a poll here too: > http://www.rapidpoll.net/awp1ocy > > Past polls are below: > http://www.rapidpoll.net/8opnt1e > http://www.rapidpoll.net/arc1opy (although someone hacked this poll and > loaded up the 76 votes like a little cheater) >
From: "Daevid Vincent" on 22 Mar 2010 20:59 That's okay Larry, YOU don't have to answer. Sorry my post offended you Larry (and anyone else equally offended). ....and yes. I AM angry that they refuse to add functionality to the PHP language that MANY people have been requesting, just because they are stubborn. I'll spare you the links to the threads (no pun intended) as you can easily find them. Have a lovely day! Your best friend always, Daevid. > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Garfield [mailto:larry(a)garfieldtech.com] > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 5:39 PM > To: php-general(a)lists.php.net > Subject: Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever "grow up" and have threading? > > Perhaps if you asked a question you'd get an answer rather > than coming off as > an angry immature crybaby in your last paragraph... No, I'm > not going to > dignify your post with a real answer. Come back when you can > ask a real > question and maybe you'll get a real answer. > > --Larry Garfield > > > Is this a case of "it's too hard"? Or is it a case of PHP > core developers > > just being douche-bags like they are about the whole > > "foo($set_this_parameter=$bar);" bull$hit??! (there is NO > reason NOT to let > > the developer choose WHICH of the list of parameters they > want to set in a > > function/method call aside from being stubborn! Especially > when there are > > many parameters and you can't overload functions like you > can in Java or > > other typed languages)
From: David McGlone on 22 Mar 2010 21:10 On Monday 22 March 2010 20:59:21 Daevid Vincent wrote: > That's okay Larry, YOU don't have to answer. > > Sorry my post offended you Larry (and anyone else equally offended). > > ...and yes. I AM angry that they refuse to add functionality to the PHP > language that MANY people have been requesting, just because they are > stubborn. I'll spare you the links to the threads (no pun intended) as you > can easily find them. > > Have a lovely day! > > Your best friend always, > > Daevid. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Larry Garfield [mailto:larry(a)garfieldtech.com] > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 5:39 PM > > To: php-general(a)lists.php.net > > Subject: Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever "grow up" and have threading? > > > > Perhaps if you asked a question you'd get an answer rather > > than coming off as > > an angry immature crybaby in your last paragraph... No, I'm > > not going to > > dignify your post with a real answer. Come back when you can > > ask a real > > question and maybe you'll get a real answer. > > > > --Larry Garfield > > > > > Is this a case of "it's too hard"? Or is it a case of PHP > > > > core developers > > > > > just being douche-bags like they are about the whole > > > "foo($set_this_parameter=$bar);" bull$hit??! (there is NO > > > > reason NOT to let > > > > > the developer choose WHICH of the list of parameters they > > > > want to set in a > > > > > function/method call aside from being stubborn! Especially > > > > when there are > > > > > many parameters and you can't overload functions like you > > > > can in Java or > > > > > other typed languages) > You could implement the features yourself. -- Blessings David M. I have been driven to my knees many times by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go.
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Hans_=C3=85hlin?= on 22 Mar 2010 22:22
It's code design problem you face, there is loots of solutions to "use treading" in php. (analyse the way ms C# and VB creates and handles threads, and when you have done that you can create a couple of php scripts to acquire the same result). Read GOF (gang of fore) Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software (ISBN 0-201-63361-2) and PHP 5 Power Programming (ISBN 0-131-47149-X) Start reading and stop being an AHole. 2010/3/23 Daevid Vincent <daevid(a)daevid.com>: > I've been using PHP for a decade or so (since PHP/FI) and love it. The one > problem that seems to always keep coming back on enterprise level projects > is the lack of threading. This always means we have to write some back-end > code in Ruby or Java or C/C++ and some hacky database layer or DBUS or > something to communicate with PHP. > > Will PHP ever have proper threading? It would sure let the language take > the next logical leap to writing applications and daemons. I love the idea > that Rails/Ruby have where you can just load objects in memory once and > keep using them from page to page (this is NOT the same as a $_SESSION, > it's way more flexible and powerful). > > But more importantly, in one application I'm working on, we need to connect > to an Asterisk system for the IVR abilities. This means we have Ruby doing > all that fun stuff and PHP doing the web stuff, but we're also duplicating > a LOT of work. Both Ruby AND PHP now have to have ORMs for the user who's > calling in, advertisements served, products shown, etc. We could have used > Rails for the web portion, but I want to stay with PHP and I'm sure I don't > have to explain to you PHPers why that is. Without threads, PHP just isn't > even an option or only one user would be able to call in at a time. > > The pcntl stuff is not feasible. It's a hack at best. Spawning multiple > scripts is also a recipie for disaster. > > When will the PHP core-devs (Zend?) realize that PHP is much more than a > hook to a database. It's much more than web pages. > > Is this a case of "it's too hard"? Or is it a case of PHP core developers > just being douche-bags like they are about the whole > "foo($set_this_parameter=$bar);" bull$hit??! (there is NO reason NOT to let > the developer choose WHICH of the list of parameters they want to set in a > function/method call aside from being stubborn! Especially when there are > many parameters and you can't overload functions like you can in Java or > other typed languages) > > As usual, I created a poll here too: > http://www.rapidpoll.net/awp1ocy > > Past polls are below: > http://www.rapidpoll.net/8opnt1e > http://www.rapidpoll.net/arc1opy (although someone hacked this poll and > loaded up the 76 votes like a little cheater) > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > -- MvH / Hans à hlin Tel: +46761488019 http//www.kronan-net.com/ |