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From: John Adair on 24 May 2010 13:45
Depending on what you want to achieve there are ways to make boards
simple by using modules like our previously mentioned Darnaw1. There
are also the DIL format Craignell1 http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/component_replacements/craignell.html
and Craignell2 http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/component_replacements/craignell2.html
modules. These modules allow you to develop your own carrier board but
handle the complex and costly BGA bit for you.

There are other low cost products like our Polmaddie series
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/polmaddie/polmaddie_family.html offer ways
into FPGA and CPLD technology at not a lot of cost. These particular
boards sell 1 off at GBP 40 (approx USD 60, Euro 50) in one off and
you get a free programming cable (parallel port) for that money. Club
together with a couple of friends and you can get free worldwide
shipping on our web shop if you can get the order over GBP 100.

All of these products are bought by hobby engineers. Tools for all of
the above are free to download. We also use 0.1 inch/ 2.54mm pitch
headers/sockets a lot to facilitate hobby and student markets with
many customers even building their add ons with simple stripboard.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd.

On 24 May, 18:19, fpgahobbyist <noth...(a)onearth.com> wrote:
> > Seems hobbyists are no market in these days. Sure, they maybe only buy
> > 10 pieces, but if this is done by many people then this my become still
> > a big quantity. I really would like to see a FPGA in PLCC84 package with
> > 5 V I/O voltage (and maybe an additional smaller core voltage). There
> > are still much older TTL gates so why shouldn't there also be a XC3195
> > (including the developement software).
>
> I completely agree. I have done a lot of projects, some I have sold, some
> I have given away. Its great to be able to design/develop without a HUGE
> investment in manufacturing tools (for smd parts)
>
> This is another reason I maintain a large stock of 22v10 in dip and plcc
> form along with an assorted collection of 8bit micros in dip form as well.
>
> Lately I have been trying to get a hold of the xc95xxx CPLD's and the
> Altera EPM71XX parts.
>
> Guess Ill have to dump these xc2018/30xx parts ;(

From: Gabor on 24 May 2010 13:45
On May 24, 1:33 pm, d_s_klein <d_s_kl...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 24, 9:28 am, glen herrmannsfeldt <g...(a)ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
> > In comp.arch.fpga John Adair <g...(a)enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > I'd second Ed's opinion. These devices were released circa 20-25 years
> > > ago and their only useful place now is a museum. Almost anyone that
> > > does have software for these will have a reason like long term product
> > > maintainence and they are unlikely to let go the software.
>
> > When I first knew about FPGAs, about 15 years ago, XC2000 devices
> > were still in the book, but no-one I knew used them.
>
> > I believe that Xilinx still has software for XC4000 devices on
> > their web site, and I might even believe that some would still
> > use them.  If you want a hobbyist device, go for XC4000 series.
>
> > -- glen
>
> I disagree with the suggestion to use an XC4000.  HDL support for this
> family (and the Spartan/SpartanXL) ended 5+ years ago.  And by ended,
> I mean that there is no legal way of obtaining the necessary software.
>
> RK

I'll third that opinion. Also the XC4000 series is much more
expensive
than many newer, larger, faster devices. If you want 5V tolerance,
look into Spartan 2, also long in the tooth but supported by ISE 10.1
and available in VQ and TQ package types.

Regards,
Gabor
From: glen herrmannsfeldt on 24 May 2010 15:09
In comp.arch.fpga d_s_klein <d_s_klein(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
(snip, I wrote)

>> I believe that Xilinx still has software for XC4000 devices on
>> their web site, and I might even believe that some would still
>> use them. �If you want a hobbyist device, go for XC4000 series.

> I disagree with the suggestion to use an XC4000. HDL support for this
> family (and the Spartan/SpartanXL) ended 5+ years ago. And by ended,
> I mean that there is no legal way of obtaining the necessary software.

I meant it in the sense that one shouldn't go farther back than that.

I thought the software was on the "Classic" section of the Xilinx
web site, but didn't try actually installing it.

-- glen
From: Gabor on 24 May 2010 15:15
On May 24, 3:09 pm, glen herrmannsfeldt <g...(a)ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
> In comp.arch.fpga d_s_klein <d_s_kl...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> (snip, I wrote)
>
> >> I believe that Xilinx still has software for XC4000 devices on
> >> their web site, and I might even believe that some would still
> >> use them.  If you want a hobbyist device, go for XC4000 series.
> > I disagree with the suggestion to use an XC4000.  HDL support for this
> > family (and the Spartan/SpartanXL) ended 5+ years ago.  And by ended,
> > I mean that there is no legal way of obtaining the necessary software.
>
> I meant it in the sense that one shouldn't go farther back than that.
>
> I thought the software was on the "Classic" section of the Xilinx
> web site, but didn't try actually installing it.
>
> -- glen

I'm still running version 4.1 of the Xilinx tools, but the
"Foundation"
not "ISE" version. You can still get ISE 4.1, but it doesn't include
synthesis or schematics, so you'd need some third party tools
to make up the gap. Xilinx no longer offers the original Foundation
versions, since they don't own the third party (Aldec) content. The
Alliance tools, by the way also required additional third party
tools for synthesis or schematics. Definitely not on a
hobbyists budget.

Regards,
Gabor
From: John Adair on 24 May 2010 18:07
The other problem you get with old software is the OS. I keep some
machines with NT for times I need to run my old version software.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd.


On 24 May, 20:15, Gabor <ga...(a)alacron.com> wrote:
> On May 24, 3:09 pm, glen herrmannsfeldt <g...(a)ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In comp.arch.fpga d_s_klein <d_s_kl...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> > (snip, I wrote)
>
> > >> I believe that Xilinx still has software for XC4000 devices on
> > >> their web site, and I might even believe that some would still
> > >> use them.  If you want a hobbyist device, go for XC4000 series.
> > > I disagree with the suggestion to use an XC4000.  HDL support for this
> > > family (and the Spartan/SpartanXL) ended 5+ years ago.  And by ended,
> > > I mean that there is no legal way of obtaining the necessary software..
>
> > I meant it in the sense that one shouldn't go farther back than that.
>
> > I thought the software was on the "Classic" section of the Xilinx
> > web site, but didn't try actually installing it.
>
> > -- glen
>
> I'm still running version 4.1 of the Xilinx tools, but the
> "Foundation"
> not "ISE" version.  You can still get ISE 4.1, but it doesn't include
> synthesis or schematics, so you'd need some third party tools
> to make up the gap.  Xilinx no longer offers the original Foundation
> versions, since they don't own the third party (Aldec) content.  The
> Alliance tools, by the way also required additional third party
> tools for synthesis or schematics.  Definitely not on a
> hobbyists budget.
>
> Regards,
> Gabor

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