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From: Ahmed Mohsen on 11 Jun 2010 19:24
On 6/11/2010 11:43 PM, Daevid Vincent wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tedd [mailto:tedd.sperling(a)gmail.com]
>>
>> I believe, just because it can be done doesn't mean that it
>> should be done.
>>
>> My practice is *never* to use<?=
>>
>> In fact, my practice is to not only use<?php echo, but to enclose
>> the echo argument with a (), like:
>>
>> <?php echo("The answer is $answer");?>
>>
>> I am sure there will be some that think that my practice is an
>> overkill, or not "good practice", but it's a good thing that we all
>> have a choice. Make your choice to best serve how you want your code
>> to look.
>
> As per http://us3.php.net/echo
>
> echo() is not actually a function (it is a language construct), so you are
> not required to use parentheses with it. echo() (unlike some other language
> constructs) does not behave like a function, so it cannot always be used in
> the context of a function. Additionally, if you want to pass more than one
> parameter to echo(), the parameters must not be enclosed within
> parentheses.
>
> So you might want to reconsider your coding practice/style here and use the
> construct as designed or you might end up with a far worse scenario than
> short-tags could ever provide. Something more along the Python "print"
> debacle.
>
> Also, for the love of God, please don't embed a variable into a literal
> string and use preprocessing.
>
> Do it like so:
>
> <?php echo 'The answer is '.$answer; ?>
>

Hey Daevid, does this form <?php echo 'The answer is '.$answer; ?>
improve anything in processing time or it's just for the sake of
readability?

--
Kind regards,
Ahmed Mohsen.
From: Simon J Welsh on 11 Jun 2010 21:51

On 12/06/2010, at 8:43 AM, Daevid Vincent wrote:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tedd [mailto:tedd.sperling(a)gmail.com]
>>
>> I believe, just because it can be done doesn't mean that it
>> should be done.
>>
>> My practice is *never* to use <?=
>>
>> In fact, my practice is to not only use <?php echo, but to enclose
>> the echo argument with a (), like:
>>
>> <?php echo("The answer is $answer");?>
>>
>> I am sure there will be some that think that my practice is an
>> overkill, or not "good practice", but it's a good thing that we all
>> have a choice. Make your choice to best serve how you want your code
>> to look.
>
> As per http://us3.php.net/echo
>
> echo() is not actually a function (it is a language construct), so you are
> not required to use parentheses with it. echo() (unlike some other language
> constructs) does not behave like a function, so it cannot always be used in
> the context of a function. Additionally, if you want to pass more than one
> parameter to echo(), the parameters must not be enclosed within
> parentheses.
>
> So you might want to reconsider your coding practice/style here and use the
> construct as designed or you might end up with a far worse scenario than
> short-tags could ever provide. Something more along the Python "print"
> debacle.
>
> Also, for the love of God, please don't embed a variable into a literal
> string and use preprocessing.
>
> Do it like so:
>
> <?php echo 'The answer is '.$answer; ?>

If you're doing it like that, you may as well use:

<?php echo 'The answer is', $answer; ?>

and leverage sending echo multiple parameters rather than using string concatenation.

---
Simon Welsh
Admin of http://simon.geek.nz/

Who said Microsoft never created a bug-free program? The blue screen never, ever crashes!

http://www.thinkgeek.com/brain/gimme.cgi?wid=81d520e5e




From: Robert Cummings on 11 Jun 2010 22:44
Simon J Welsh wrote:
> On 12/06/2010, at 8:43 AM, Daevid Vincent wrote:
>> Also, for the love of God, please don't embed a variable into a literal
>> string and use preprocessing.
>>
>> Do it like so:
>>
>> <?php echo 'The answer is '.$answer; ?>
>
> If you're doing it like that, you may as well use:
>
> <?php echo 'The answer is', $answer; ?>

<?php echo 'The answer is ', $answer; ?>

Fixed that for you :)

Cheers,
Rob.
--
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attached documents is considered confidential and legally protected.
This message is intended solely for the addressee(s). Disclosure,
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From: Paul M Foster on 13 Jun 2010 01:40
On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 05:29:50PM -0400, tedd wrote:

<snip>

> As for the Python "print" problem, I don't do Python -- so, it can
> win the lottery, or die, I don't care.

The issue, as I recall, is that for Python 3, they are changing print
(without parentheses) to require parentheses. This change alone (and
there are others like this in Python 3) will necessitate a *lot* of code
rewrites. Sometimes I wonder about Guido van Rossum.

>
> As for "don't embed a variable into a literal string and use
> preprocessing", as I said above, I often do this:
>
> <?php echo("The answer is $answer");?>
>
> and find no problems whatsoever in doing so.
>
> However, I wouldn't do this:
>
> <?php echo 'The answer is '.$answer; ?>
>
> OR, I would place a space before/after the . (i.e., 'The answer is '
> . $answer). However, I don't like doing that because I also program
> in other languages, which use the dot operator differently.

I tend to do it the way Tedd does, but I'm rethinking this. I recently
had occasion to do a lot of programming in C and Python, and one thing
stood out at me: I can't recall another language which allows
interpolation of variables within strings (without significant diddling,
if at all). It caused me great difficulty because I'm so used to doing
this in PHP. I can convert from '.' to '+' (as in most languages) in my
mind, but embedding variables in strings was a harder habit to break. My
opinion is that the dot operator used this way was a mistake for
PHP. Not using the dot operator to mean "concatenate" would mean we
could use it to replace the accursed '->' for class/method selection.
And the plus operator is obviously a more natural fit for string
concatenation.

And yes, if you're going to use the dot operator, surround it with
spaces for readability.

Paul

--
Paul M. Foster
From: "Daevid Vincent" on 14 Jun 2010 14:51
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul M Foster [mailto:paulf(a)quillandmouse.com]
> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 10:40 PM
>
> this in PHP. I can convert from '.' to '+' (as in most
> languages) in my
> mind, but embedding variables in strings was a harder habit
> to break. My
> opinion is that the dot operator used this way was a mistake for
> PHP. Not using the dot operator to mean "concatenate" would mean we
> could use it to replace the accursed '->' for class/method selection.
> And the plus operator is obviously a more natural fit for string
> concatenation.
>
> And yes, if you're going to use the dot operator, surround it with
> spaces for readability.

Ironically, I believe that in the old days of PHP/FI the "+" was used
instead of "." -- to their defense, OOP wasn't even around then and so no
precedent had been set for the "." and I think they wanted to avoid
confusion with actual addition. I just remember having to go through and
re-work a bunch of code that broke b/c of this change.

But yes, I agree with you there. + should have stayed as the concat AND
addition, just like in JavaScript and other languages, and "." should have
been used instead of "->"

All of this I think could have been done AND maintain backwards
compatability with the use of some php.ini directives. Alternatively, I bet
some fancy regex scripts could also have been written that would migrate
"old" code to "new" code styles (I think the python guys did this for
"print")

*sigh*. It is what it is now. Ain't no going back from here. Like it or
lump it as they say.

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