jQuery crashes again
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From: David Mark on 3 Apr 2010 16:13 Gregor Kofler wrote: > Hans-Georg Michna meinte: > >> I have not tried to analyze why the new jQuery version crashed >> in this page. Guess it doesn't matter much. My impression is >> that pretty much every non-trivial, JavaScript-rich page that >> uses jQuery does not survive the latest jQuery upgrade. > > Recently I had a lengthy discussion with a customer, who wanted to > replace my - perfectly working - custom JS with jQuery due to the "big > community", the "sort of de-facto standard", the "future support". He > was somewhat irritated by my hefty response. Sigh. > As for "big community", there are lots of eyes and hands, but the brains seem to be on holiday. And I don't know what "future support" means, but the _present_ support is clearly the blind leading the blind. The truth can be irritating to those who have already made up their minds to believe lies.
From: Garrett Smith on 3 Apr 2010 16:12 David Mark wrote: > Garrett Smith wrote: >> David Mark wrote: >>> Garrett Smith wrote: >>>> Hans-Georg Michna wrote: >>>>> I had upgraded the jQuery module and forgot to test one of my >>>>> web pages that uses it. Sure enough, it no longer worked and >>>>> copped out with a JavaScript error (akin to a Java null pointer >>>>> exception :-). >>>>> >>>> It would probably help to provide more details. >>> And who would that help exactly? >>> >> The answer to that question is unknown at this point. > > No it isn't. Nobody. > The details of the problem might help nobody but that can't be said for sure, not until the problem is laid out. Specifics and details of cause and effect are unknown. Until they are known, it cannot be proven what the benefit of knowing them would be. What was it that the OP thought was "akin to NPE"? Was the perceived problem caused by a query selector, a plugin, a missing resource or bad file path? Did the whole thing fall apart in several places? The answer could be helpful to someone who is experiencing the same issue or could shed light on a problem with upgrading jQuery versions. If jQuery is really as awful as you say, then lets see some of those gory details (and not some looney toons campfire story!) -- Garrett comp.lang.javascript FAQ: http://jibbering.com/faq/
From: David Mark on 3 Apr 2010 18:47 Garrett Smith wrote: > David Mark wrote: >> Garrett Smith wrote: >>> David Mark wrote: >>>> Garrett Smith wrote: >>>>> Hans-Georg Michna wrote: >>>>>> I had upgraded the jQuery module and forgot to test one of my >>>>>> web pages that uses it. Sure enough, it no longer worked and >>>>>> copped out with a JavaScript error (akin to a Java null pointer >>>>>> exception :-). >>>>>> >>>>> It would probably help to provide more details. >>>> And who would that help exactly? >>>> >>> The answer to that question is unknown at this point. >> >> No it isn't. Nobody. >> > > The details of the problem might help nobody but that can't be said for > sure, not until the problem is laid out. The problem is solved. > > Specifics and details of cause and effect are unknown. Until they are > known, it cannot be proven what the benefit of knowing them would be. > > What was it that the OP thought was "akin to NPE"? He already explained that. > > Was the perceived problem caused by a query selector, a plugin, a > missing resource or bad file path? Did the whole thing fall apart in > several places? You are missing the big picture (as usual). As for the first two, you wouldn't have to worry about them if you don't rely on jQuery (or the like). And obviously a broken method inside jQuery (as explained by the OP) was not caused by a missing resource. > > The answer could be helpful to someone who is experiencing the same > issue or could shed light on a problem with upgrading jQuery versions. That problem has been spotlighted repeatedly. It doesn't need any more light. > > If jQuery is really as awful as you say, then lets see some of those > gory details (and not some looney toons campfire story!) Is that supposed to be a joke? Where have you been for the past three years or so? Rhetorical of course as you've been right here, but have inexplicably missed the endless recounting of gory details, demonstrations of futility (many available to this day on my site), etc. Search the archive (or jQuery's forums) to refresh your "memory". What an ultra maroon.
From: Garrett Smith on 4 Apr 2010 01:00 David Mark wrote: > Garrett Smith wrote: >> David Mark wrote: >>> Garrett Smith wrote: >>>> David Mark wrote: >>>>> Garrett Smith wrote: >>>>>> Hans-Georg Michna wrote: >>>>>>> I had upgraded the jQuery module and forgot to test one of my >>>>>>> web pages that uses it. Sure enough, it no longer worked and >>>>>>> copped out with a JavaScript error (akin to a Java null pointer >>>>>>> exception :-). >>>>>>> >>>>>> It would probably help to provide more details. >>>>> And who would that help exactly? >>>>> >>>> The answer to that question is unknown at this point. >>> No it isn't. Nobody. >>> >> The details of the problem might help nobody but that can't be said for >> sure, not until the problem is laid out. > > The problem is solved. > The problem wasn't ever demonstrated. It was more like: I upgraded jquery I got errors I ditched jQuery Sounds reasonable. Trying to debug a long call trace through jQuery's three mile methods with all the overloading requires a lot of work. The overloading strategy in jQuery is a fundamental design decision of the core library. You followed up with: | It's only the hopelessly indoctrinated (or insane) that | don't notice this. That argument does not logically follow. Comments about "Resig's delusions" or "kudos - you get the picture" don't follow either. >> Specifics and details of cause and effect are unknown. Until they are >> known, it cannot be proven what the benefit of knowing them would be. >> >> What was it that the OP thought was "akin to NPE"? > > He already explained that. > Yeah, "as memory serves..." which is odd, considering he just attempted the upgrade. For all I know, he looked into the problem for a while and then decided it wasn't worth spending time on. >> Was the perceived problem caused by a query selector, a plugin, a >> missing resource or bad file path? Did the whole thing fall apart in >> several places? > > You are missing the big picture (as usual). That is a loaded statement. I disagree with that, and with the loaded implication. I asked for more detail on the problem. So far, the OP has not demonstrated an error with jQuery. If he had, we would have seen it. If the OP wanted to make an example of it, he could have written a detailed description, filed a bug report on jquery bug tracker, and made a blog entry. Now if he did that, it would get my respect. Whining about "it doesn't work" does not get my respect. I consider that the OP was using jq in the first place, doesn't look so favorably. jQuery is unsuitable for use in professional context and for personal use, what for? Amateurs use jquery and have problems. As for the first two, you > wouldn't have to worry about them if you don't rely on jQuery (or the > like). And obviously a broken method inside jQuery (as explained by the > OP) was not caused by a missing resource. > >> The answer could be helpful to someone who is experiencing the same >> issue or could shed light on a problem with upgrading jQuery versions. > > That problem has been spotlighted repeatedly. It doesn't need any more > light. Millions of jquery users don't see the issue. If Hans were to go and make a good, valid example, file bugs, make a blog entry, it would show professionalism. > >> If jQuery is really as awful as you say, then lets see some of those >> gory details (and not some looney toons campfire story!) > > Is that supposed to be a joke? Where have you been for the past three > years or so? Rhetorical of course as you've been right here, but have > inexplicably missed the endless recounting of gory details, If the OP has investigated the details about this issue, he could gain professional respect by presenting them in a professional manner. Hopefully he can use your behavior as an example of what *not* to do. > demonstrations of futility (many available to this day on my site), etc. > Search the archive (or jQuery's forums) to refresh your "memory". > > What an ultra maroon. A little California tan but not maroon. -- Garrett comp.lang.javascript FAQ: http://jibbering.com/faq/
From: Gregor Kofler on 4 Apr 2010 07:02
David Mark meinte: > Gregor Kofler wrote: >> Recently I had a lengthy discussion with a customer, who wanted to >> replace my - perfectly working - custom JS with jQuery due to the "big >> community", the "sort of de-facto standard", the "future support". He >> was somewhat irritated by my hefty response. Sigh. >> > > As for "big community", there are lots of eyes and hands, but the brains > seem to be on holiday. And I don't know what "future support" means, > but the _present_ support is clearly the blind leading the blind. > > The truth can be irritating to those who have already made up their > minds to believe lies. But... there are even *books* about jQuery! -- http://www.gregorkofler.com |