From: Richard Webb on
ROn writes:
> If you only use the desk for just the one band, there's nothing to
> stop you leaving an analogue desk at the end of the gig with the
> gain, eq, and aux settings as they were, just reduce the aux masters
> (to avoid any nasty surprises) Make minor tweaks at the next gig,
> the settings are already in the ballpark. This is how most touring
> companies who are still using analogue work - they don't reset the
> desk if tomorrow night is going to be the same as tonight.

INdeed, always did. FOr a studio or other board I don't,
but same configuration every time that's all I do is pull
the masters down and otherwise leave everything as is.

> The learning curve on a digital desk is a very steep one. Many of us
> older guys never really get truly into our comfort zone with them
> especially if we're not using the same desk every night. What Arnie
> said is partly true, once the desk is set up, a monkey can run it,
> but getting it there is the tricky part.

True, and, one thing I didn't add to my other post in this
thread is that, as a traveling gun engineer that might end
up using whatever is there I'd want an analog over a digital unknown to me. IF I truly need my digi and would have to
take whatever I got I'd just have to bring my own <g>. Iirc the original poster is MIke, and if I"m correct, were I MIke I"d stick with what I have now and pocket my limited gig
money<g>.

> As for outboard gear, don't use it if it isn't needed.

RIght, if you haven't needed it so far, then for the type of places you're playing it doesn't sound like you need any
more than some vocal fx, and good eq for mains and monitors. For the type of gigs you're doing that's the main thing I'd look at if I didn't have it now. AS noted elsewhere, running sound from the stage you don't
need to screw with comps and gates and all that. IF you're
playing the type of gigs where you do then you need ears out front. THe important thing in small clubs is to get a good
blend with each other and make sure the patrons can hear the words, and still communicate among themselves <g>.
> The Mixwiz is a fine little desk (I`ve just spent most of the weekend
> behind one) I would stick with what you know, at least for now.

I would too, and if you've just got to improve things, look
to your equalizers first. I note you said something about a separate monitor mix so your guitarists can hear each other. HEre's a thought for you, but before you do that, make sure
your guitarists have their amps up off the floor, and aimed
at likely sets of ears, not behind the gtr players aimed at
the backs of their knees. I like to fire my instrument
sound a bit across the stage too and ask other guitars/keys
etc. to try to maximize placement so that everybody blends
well on stage. THe type of places you play I'll bet even
with just vocals and maybe a little kick and sometimes
overhead in the foh mix
you've still got volume issues occasionally.

Gigs such as the sports bar you mentioned are one reason I
like very simple small club setups when I've got to play and handle sr duties. I'm a keep it simple stupid kinda guy in
those situations, because it's already a pita loading in
around the folks standing around smoking and the waitress
with the tray of drinks and ... <aaaaaagh>

That's the type of gig that keeps me from doing the bar band thing. THere was a place in NEw ORleans I just dearly
detested because load in and out was a pita, and it was a
large enough club a real good sr system with operator was
required. HOwever, it didn't pay well enough, so ...


Regards,
Richard
.... Remote audio in the southland: See www.gatasound.com
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From: Arny Krueger on
"Ron" <ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message
news:N-adnXXfgbvedpHRnZ2dnUVZ8hGdnZ2d(a)bt.com

> If you only use the desk for just the one band, there's
> nothing to stop you leaving an analogue desk at the end
> of the gig with the gain, eq, and aux settings as they
> were, just reduce the aux masters (to avoid any nasty
> surprises)

Except that if you move the desk around, there is a high probability of
faders, switches and knobs being inadvertantly changed.

Another problem is if there are any variations in the make-up of the band,
or the music that you play, you may end up making changes during the gig,
this time on purpose.

Finally, there's a possibility that you may find it advantageous to use
different mixes for different songs that you play.

> Many of us older guys never really get truly into our comfort zone with
> them

There's the *real* problem. There's a lot of people who are very expert with
analog desks, and never ever have gotten as comfortable with digital as they
are with analog.

It's just being human.

Unlike a lot of people, I never had an analog deck that I fell in love with.
About as good as it ever got for me in analog land was a Mackie SR32 that
developed full-blown ribbon connector disease over the 5 or so years that I
used it. It was always less board than I needed for the gig, and as it
started failing, it got to be less and less.

> especially if we're not using the same desk every night.

If your primary board is digital and you use it for several hours, several
days a week, your learning curve gets shortened. I never turned back,
except under duress, like a small gig that wasn't worth the trouble to move
the big board.

> What Arnie said is partly true, once the desk is set up, a monkey can run
> it, but
> getting it there is the tricky part.

Digital boards are only tricky if you aren't comfortable with them.

Out of the box, or after a system reset all the digital boards I've seen act
pretty much like a simple analog board. The inputs and outputs are mapped to
the faders and busses in the simplist most obvious possible way, the eq is
all centered, and all the aux sends are all zeroed out. How that would
confuse any experienced person beats me. I think anxiety and fear of the
unknown is the worst part of it.

I never use menus for anything but patching inputs and outputs, which I've
only had to do infrequently since I added the expansion cards. I touch a
fader and all the virtual controls map themselves to that channel. One
dedicated button punch to bring up the gain controls for each aux send. And
this is on an 02R96 which is alleged to be one of the more difficult digital
boards to learn.




From: Denny Strauser on
mkm wrote:
> Im thinking about the Presonus studio live. Band feels we cant afford to
> pay sound engineer at the smaller places we provide PA. The Studio Live
> saves scenes and has presets for various instruments and vocals using
> internal gates, compressors, limiters etc.
>
> With the Studio Live we could pay sound engineer to set up and save the
> scene for future use. We play some smaller places where we have a band
> open for us. (I know, a $300 gig with an opening act, but it happens
> where we play and the opener plays for free 1 set for the exposure but
> we did this and were hired as the paid main band at every place we
> opened for free.)
>
> With the Studio Live we could let the opener mix themselves and be able
> to easily reset to our scene. The firewire recording output is a plus
> but not essential. ( I have an HD24)
>
> Any thoughts on the Presonus Studio Live vs the A&H Mixwiz3 for
> reliability, ease of use,etc would be appreciated.
>
> Any sound engineers in the Shrewsbury/York PA area?

The MixWhiz is a decent board. I've worked with many acts - local to
national - who use these for monitor boards, in-ears and/or wedges. If
you must share the board with an opening act, I suggest that you keep
it, unless you have someone to babysit a guest engineer on a digital board.

I've read through this thread, and although I'm OLD-school, with an
emphasis on OLD, I, personally, would choose a digital board for a
number of reasons. Someone mentioned that the learning curve is steep,
but if you have someone to tutor you for a few shows, it is a fairly
quick lesson to learn. Not only that, but after you get a handle on
mixing digitally, most other digital consoles are fairly easy to grasp.


I haven't mixed on the Presonus, but I've mixed a number of Yamaha &
Digidesign boards. As long as I have someone who knows the board to
assist me, working on a different digital board is about the same as
working on a different analog board, once you know the basics.

- Denny
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