uninstalling programs
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From: VanguardLH on 31 May 2010 19:36 Jo-Anne wrote: > A number of the programs I've installed on my WinXP computers come with > their own uninstaller programs. To uninstall, is it better to use Windows > Add-Remove Programs or the individual uninstallers? > > Thank you! > > Jo-Anne The installer used by the program may record an entry in the Uninstall registry key which you see as an entry in the Add/Remove Programs applet in Control Panel. So whether you use the uninstall shortcut provided by the installer or use the Add/Remove Programs applet, both point to the same command and you end up running the same uninstaller program. If their installer doesn't show an entry in the Add/Remove Programs applet then all you have is their shortcut to run their uninstaller. When you install a program, and after it completes, go check if they added an entry that shows up in the Add/Remove Programs applet. If you see it there, it's the same program that their uninstall shortcut will run. If it doesn't show up there, use the uninstall shortcut they gave you. Not all installers provide for a clean uninstall. In fact, most uninstallations are dirty. Part of that is the developers really don't want to thoroughly test their uninstaller (I've been in QA long enough trying to push the Dev group to build a decent uninstaller to know that they are typically very sloppy about this aspect of their software and often rely on the uninstaller program to do all the work). Part of why an uninstall is dirty is that Windows generates registry entries and creates files after the install has completed, like when you first run or configure the program which after the install is all done. Part of why dirty installs happen is that someone (like Marketing) pushes Dev to only do a partial uninstall because, gee, all their customers must really want their software so they leave behind settings in the registry or files that permit a subsequent reinstall to reuse all that data (i.e., their viewpoint is that you are only doing the uninstall to fix a problem and will follow with another reinstall). Best is to use a logger that monitors all registry and file changes made by an install program. That includes not just monitoring the install of a program but also loading the program to record its first-use changes to the registry and any files it creates or modifies. To uninstall, you use their uninstaller (whether in Add/Remove Programs or their uninstall shortcut) and then follow with an uninstall (cleanup) by the install logger. Currently I use Zsoft's Uninstaller but only because it's free. There might be better uninstallers but I'm not forking out the money for them. Some uninstallers are guessers: they don't monitor the installs and instead make guesses as to what additional cleanup might be needed. They may have some hardcoded rules for cleanup for well-known applications and some of the versions of them but they don't know how to cleanup all apps or all versions of the well-known apps. Revo Uninstaller is one of those. However, no matter that you use the uninstaller provided by the software or an install logger or a guesser uninstaller, there will still be remnants left in your registry and often some files are still left behind so for the most perfect cleanup you end up doing it - provided you have the expertise to understand the registry. Even then there may be entries left in the registry simply because you cannot or should not delete all references to the uninstalled software. For example, some programs save known algorithms regarding other software in the registry and you don't want to delete those references even if you uninstall the referenced software. Those references may, for example, be indexed and deleting them would screw up the references used by the program in how it manages conflicts or behaviors between it and those other programs. My rule is that you don't install anything that you might consider later to uninstall. Don't pollute your system and then hope you can get it completely clean later - unless you're willing to same image backups and restore to them and lose everything you installed after that image backup. Test unknown or untrusted software of which you are unsure that you want to keep inside a virtual machine, or use multi-booting to load a separate instance of the OS from another partition that you don't care about polluting (and probably use imaging to revert to a baseline image for that testing partition).
From: Bob CP on 31 May 2010 19:53 On 5/31/2010 7:36 PM, VanguardLH wrote: > Jo-Anne wrote: > >> A number of the programs I've installed on my WinXP computers come with >> their own uninstaller programs. To uninstall, is it better to use Windows >> Add-Remove Programs or the individual uninstallers? >> >> Thank you! >> >> Jo-Anne > > The installer used by the program may record an entry in the Uninstall > registry key which you see as an entry in the Add/Remove Programs applet > in Control Panel. So whether you use the uninstall shortcut provided by > the installer or use the Add/Remove Programs applet, both point to the > same command and you end up running the same uninstaller program. > > If their installer doesn't show an entry in the Add/Remove Programs > applet then all you have is their shortcut to run their uninstaller. > > When you install a program, and after it completes, go check if they > added an entry that shows up in the Add/Remove Programs applet. If you > see it there, it's the same program that their uninstall shortcut will > run. If it doesn't show up there, use the uninstall shortcut they gave > you. > > Not all installers provide for a clean uninstall. In fact, most > uninstallations are dirty. Part of that is the developers really don't > want to thoroughly test their uninstaller (I've been in QA long enough > trying to push the Dev group to build a decent uninstaller to know that > they are typically very sloppy about this aspect of their software and > often rely on the uninstaller program to do all the work). Part of why > an uninstall is dirty is that Windows generates registry entries and > creates files after the install has completed, like when you first run > or configure the program which after the install is all done. Part of > why dirty installs happen is that someone (like Marketing) pushes Dev to > only do a partial uninstall because, gee, all their customers must > really want their software so they leave behind settings in the registry > or files that permit a subsequent reinstall to reuse all that data > (i.e., their viewpoint is that you are only doing the uninstall to fix a > problem and will follow with another reinstall). Best is to use a > logger that monitors all registry and file changes made by an install > program. That includes not just monitoring the install of a program but > also loading the program to record its first-use changes to the registry > and any files it creates or modifies. To uninstall, you use their > uninstaller (whether in Add/Remove Programs or their uninstall shortcut) > and then follow with an uninstall (cleanup) by the install logger. > > Currently I use Zsoft's Uninstaller but only because it's free. There > might be better uninstallers but I'm not forking out the money for them. > Some uninstallers are guessers: they don't monitor the installs and > instead make guesses as to what additional cleanup might be needed. > They may have some hardcoded rules for cleanup for well-known > applications and some of the versions of them but they don't know how to > cleanup all apps or all versions of the well-known apps. Revo > Uninstaller is one of those. However, no matter that you use the > uninstaller provided by the software or an install logger or a guesser > uninstaller, there will still be remnants left in your registry and > often some files are still left behind so for the most perfect cleanup > you end up doing it - provided you have the expertise to understand the > registry. Even then there may be entries left in the registry simply > because you cannot or should not delete all references to the > uninstalled software. For example, some programs save known algorithms > regarding other software in the registry and you don't want to delete > those references even if you uninstall the referenced software. Those > references may, for example, be indexed and deleting them would screw up > the references used by the program in how it manages conflicts or > behaviors between it and those other programs. > > My rule is that you don't install anything that you might consider later > to uninstall. Don't pollute your system and then hope you can get it > completely clean later - unless you're willing to same image backups and > restore to them and lose everything you installed after that image > backup. Test unknown or untrusted software of which you are unsure that > you want to keep inside a virtual machine, or use multi-booting to load > a separate instance of the OS from another partition that you don't care > about polluting (and probably use imaging to revert to a baseline image > for that testing partition). Revo Uninstaller works well for me. Will remove every file and every registry reference to your preferences. http://download.cnet.com/Revo-Uninstaller/3000-2096_4-10687648.html
From: Jo-Anne on 31 May 2010 20:56 "Daave" <daave(a)example.com> wrote in message news:uW7MQERALHA.1888(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Jo-Anne wrote: >> A number of the programs I've installed on my WinXP computers come >> with their own uninstaller programs. To uninstall, is it better to >> use Windows Add-Remove Programs or the individual uninstallers? >> >> Thank you! > > Six of one; half-a-dozen of another. :-) > Thank you, Daave! Jo-Anne
From: Jo-Anne on 31 May 2010 20:57 "Twayne" <nobody(a)spamcop.net> wrote in message news:OF54bdRALHA.2332(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > In news:%23IgWZFQALHA.5476(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl, > Jo-Anne <Jo-AnneATnowhere.com> typed: >> A number of the programs I've installed on my WinXP >> computers come with their own uninstaller programs. To >> uninstall, is it better to use Windows Add-Remove Programs >> or the individual uninstallers? >> Thank you! >> >> Jo-Anne > > Unless they tell you different, use the Add-Remove Programs. > Thank you, Twayne! Jo-Anne
From: Jo-Anne on 31 May 2010 21:04
"VanguardLH" <V(a)nguard.LH> wrote in message news:hu1h4f$aui$1(a)news.albasani.net... > Jo-Anne wrote: > >> A number of the programs I've installed on my WinXP computers come with >> their own uninstaller programs. To uninstall, is it better to use Windows >> Add-Remove Programs or the individual uninstallers? >> >> Thank you! >> >> Jo-Anne > > The installer used by the program may record an entry in the Uninstall > registry key which you see as an entry in the Add/Remove Programs applet > in Control Panel. So whether you use the uninstall shortcut provided by > the installer or use the Add/Remove Programs applet, both point to the > same command and you end up running the same uninstaller program. > > If their installer doesn't show an entry in the Add/Remove Programs > applet then all you have is their shortcut to run their uninstaller. > > When you install a program, and after it completes, go check if they > added an entry that shows up in the Add/Remove Programs applet. If you > see it there, it's the same program that their uninstall shortcut will > run. If it doesn't show up there, use the uninstall shortcut they gave > you. > > Not all installers provide for a clean uninstall. In fact, most > uninstallations are dirty. Part of that is the developers really don't > want to thoroughly test their uninstaller (I've been in QA long enough > trying to push the Dev group to build a decent uninstaller to know that > they are typically very sloppy about this aspect of their software and > often rely on the uninstaller program to do all the work). Part of why > an uninstall is dirty is that Windows generates registry entries and > creates files after the install has completed, like when you first run > or configure the program which after the install is all done. Part of > why dirty installs happen is that someone (like Marketing) pushes Dev to > only do a partial uninstall because, gee, all their customers must > really want their software so they leave behind settings in the registry > or files that permit a subsequent reinstall to reuse all that data > (i.e., their viewpoint is that you are only doing the uninstall to fix a > problem and will follow with another reinstall). Best is to use a > logger that monitors all registry and file changes made by an install > program. That includes not just monitoring the install of a program but > also loading the program to record its first-use changes to the registry > and any files it creates or modifies. To uninstall, you use their > uninstaller (whether in Add/Remove Programs or their uninstall shortcut) > and then follow with an uninstall (cleanup) by the install logger. > > Currently I use Zsoft's Uninstaller but only because it's free. There > might be better uninstallers but I'm not forking out the money for them. > Some uninstallers are guessers: they don't monitor the installs and > instead make guesses as to what additional cleanup might be needed. > They may have some hardcoded rules for cleanup for well-known > applications and some of the versions of them but they don't know how to > cleanup all apps or all versions of the well-known apps. Revo > Uninstaller is one of those. However, no matter that you use the > uninstaller provided by the software or an install logger or a guesser > uninstaller, there will still be remnants left in your registry and > often some files are still left behind so for the most perfect cleanup > you end up doing it - provided you have the expertise to understand the > registry. Even then there may be entries left in the registry simply > because you cannot or should not delete all references to the > uninstalled software. For example, some programs save known algorithms > regarding other software in the registry and you don't want to delete > those references even if you uninstall the referenced software. Those > references may, for example, be indexed and deleting them would screw up > the references used by the program in how it manages conflicts or > behaviors between it and those other programs. > > My rule is that you don't install anything that you might consider later > to uninstall. Don't pollute your system and then hope you can get it > completely clean later - unless you're willing to same image backups and > restore to them and lose everything you installed after that image > backup. Test unknown or untrusted software of which you are unsure that > you want to keep inside a virtual machine, or use multi-booting to load > a separate instance of the OS from another partition that you don't care > about polluting (and probably use imaging to revert to a baseline image > for that testing partition). Thank you, Vanguard, for the education! I've copied your post into my software file for reference. I'm pretty careful about what I install, but I've found that on occasion I need to uninstall a product in order to install a later version. Avira AntiVir is a case in point. On one of my computers I just upgraded to version 10 over version 9, as recommended at the Avira website. However, the program's virus definition updater refused to work. I had to manually update and then fiddle with it some more before it appeared to begin working--and I'll be checking it for the next few days. I asked about this on the Avira forum and was told I needed to uninstall version 9 before installing version 10. I did that on my second computer, and it worked fine. I try to use only well-known software, but I've also taken to installing new programs on the computer I use least often and that doesn't have my most important data on it. Thank you, again! Jo-Anne |