Computer won't boot
in [Hardware]
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From: Wyman on 12 May 2010 23:33 There aren't any beeps and I haven't heard any at all. I'm not sure how to get them to emit from the black piezo thingy you speak of. I've examined the board carefully and I do not see any leakage that you speak of. Actually the board looks very good for an older computer. Unless I'm blind, I don't see any extra wires to connect the case speakers. Where would they be located? Wyman "Paul" <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote in message news:hsfp9o$fot$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > Wyman wrote: >> Hi again Paul - >> >> I did a beep test with the ram, video card, and hard drives removed and >> there were no beeps. And yes the speakers were on. >> >> So do you think it's a motherboard issue given that the power supply is >> brand new? The motherboard is a MS-6741 version 1. >> Here's a link to it: >> http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=proddesc&maincat_no=1&prod_no=601# >> >> Is there another motherboard similar to this one where they could get at >> Best Buy or other electronics store? I've found a couple of online >> stores that have this model but I'm concerned about their return >> policies. >> >> Thanks again for your help. >> >> Wyman > > In the picture, I think I see an onboard piezo speaker, right below the > two yellow (IDE?) connectors. Your beeps might be expected to come from > there. > > http://us.msi.com/uploads/prod_890a5cd5c9a3d19d42ade9c9c015a97a.jpg > > http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=proddesc&prod_no=601&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=171&cat3_no=7 > > K8M800 / VT8237 / S754 > > The manual shows connector JFP1 has pins for "SPKR" on pins numbered > 2 and 8. That is a span of four pins on 0.1" centers. The computer > case itself, may have a speaker mounted inside it, with that four pin > connector leading to it. The four pin connector might use the > two outside pins, for the speaker wires. If you don't have that > black piezo disc, then connect up the computer case speaker. > The computer case speaker, is a different speaker than the external > amplified stereo speakers you might be using. > > http://download2.msi.com/files/downloads/mnu_exe/E6741v1.1.zip > > I don't know if the motherboard can drive both of those at the same > time, or whether the motherboard has that piezo element (black in > color, about the size of a quarter) as an option. Maybe if the board > is sold as an OEM motherboard, as part of a pre-built computer, > they install the piezo speaker on it. > > In any case, for a beep test, you either need a working piezo thing, > or a working computer case speaker for the PC Beep. I presume > you used to hear a single "beep" at system startup, so should > have some idea if the machine used to beep while it was still functional. > With the RAM missing, you should get a different, repeating beep > pattern. > > The purpose of the "beep" test, is to prove a minimal set of the > motherboard is functional. With no RAM installed, disks disconnected, > you can check for the beeps. If you hear them, your processor > managed to read BIOS code, do a memory test, and find the memory > missing. To generate the beep, the hardware path to the chipset > has to work. Same goes for reading the BIOS firmware - that won't work > unless a significant amount of the board is working. > > A PCI Port 80 POST card, can also be used as a "proof of life" test, > but those cost money, whereas the beep test only needs > some kind of speaker you might already have. > > I still think you should do a visual check for leaking caps. If > all the tops are shiny and flat, with no broken seams, then all > is fine in that regard. > > Paul
From: Paul on 13 May 2010 10:15 Wyman wrote: > There aren't any beeps and I haven't heard any at all. I'm not sure how to > get them to emit from the black piezo thingy you speak of. > > I've examined the board carefully and I do not see any leakage that you > speak of. Actually the board looks very good for an older computer. > > Unless I'm blind, I don't see any extra wires to connect the case speakers. > Where would they be located? > > Wyman > OK, if I look at my computer right now, there is a thing called the PANEL header. It is in the lower right hand corner of my motherboard. It is an unwritten convention, to place the connector down in the lower right hand corner. It is where you start looking, for computer case interface pins. PLED SPEAKER X . X . . . X X X X X X . . . X X . X X IDE PWR RESET My computer case, has five pieces of twisted pair wire. Each twisted pair has a connector on the end. The connector has a name printed on it, such as "PWR". The "PWR" pair of wires coming from the front of the computer case, are coming from the front Power switch. You connect the Power switch from the computer, to the PWR pins on the PANEL header. When you've done so, momentarily pressing the power switch, shorts the two PWR pins on the PANEL header together, and that is the signal for the computer to start. The PANEL header, is where devices on the front panel of the computer case connect. In cases where the computer case is missing functions, you simply don't have anything to fit on the pins. For example, some computer cases don't have a RESET switch. If you were building a computer, and it had no pair of wires for RESET, then the PANEL header would end up with no connector on it. The bare minimum set of wires for the PANEL header, is PWR. You can't very well use the computer, unless there is some means to momentarily short the PWR pins together. In my example of a PANEL header above, four of the five interfaces could have nothing connected to it. But I do need PWR, to be able to use the computer. Now, in your case, I used your user manual, to identify a header which has the SPKR (speaker) pins on it. Look at your computer case. Do you see a pair of wires lying on the bottom of the case unused ? Does the connector on the end of the wires say "SPKR". Is the connector size four pins, where the outside pins (pin 1 and pin 4) have wires ? That is what you'd connect to the header on the motherboard. So either you have that black piezoelectric disc below the two IDE connectors, or you do not. Check visually and see if the black disc (piezo speaker) is present. If it isn't present, then you need to investigate 1) Whether the computer case has an internal speaker intended for PC Beep. The speaker itself is usually hidden, and can be held in a separate plastic assembly in the front of the computer. Sometimes a plastic holder has room for a small fan, and on the other side of the assembly, the speaker is jammed into the plastic. 2) If you have a speaker, and the two wires are sitting there unused, try connecting them to the pins labeled SPKR, as shown in your user manual. When I look in the E6741v1.1.pdf document, the PANEL header is documented on PDF page 28. In your case, there are two adjacent sets of pins, JFP2 and JFP1, that make up the traditional set of PANEL header functions. You have PLED, PWR, HDD, RESET on one group of pins. The second connector has the SPKR pins on it (as well as some confusing LED driving functions). http://download2.msi.com/files/downloads/mnu_exe/E6741v1.1.zip Look in the lower right hand corner of your motherboard. The text "JFP2" and "JFP1" should be printed next to the header pins. The diagram in the manual on PDF page 11, shows the PANEL functions in the lower right hand corner. There, you can see how close together JFP2 and JFP1 are. It *looks* like a 2x9 set of pins. Other motherboards would just call that whole thing "PANEL". If you connect the computer case speaker to the SPKR pins on that thing, then you're ready for beep codes. Some computer cases (the up-scale ones), don't have the built-in case speaker any more. You can always get a small speaker from an old transistor radio, to use as a substitute. As long as the motherboard has the SPKR interface on the PANEL header, you can drive one. Paul
From: Wyman G. on 13 May 2010 13:12
"Paul" wrote: > Wyman wrote: > > There aren't any beeps and I haven't heard any at all. I'm not sure how to > > get them to emit from the black piezo thingy you speak of. > > > > I've examined the board carefully and I do not see any leakage that you > > speak of. Actually the board looks very good for an older computer. > > > > Unless I'm blind, I don't see any extra wires to connect the case speakers. > > Where would they be located? > > > > Wyman > > > > OK, if I look at my computer right now, there is a thing called > the PANEL header. It is in the lower right hand corner of my motherboard. > It is an unwritten convention, to place the connector down in the lower > right hand corner. It is where you start looking, for computer case interface > pins. > > PLED SPEAKER > X . X . . . X X X X > > X X . . . X X . X X > IDE PWR RESET > > My computer case, has five pieces of twisted pair wire. Each twisted > pair has a connector on the end. The connector has a name printed on > it, such as "PWR". The "PWR" pair of wires coming from the front of > the computer case, are coming from the front Power switch. You connect > the Power switch from the computer, to the PWR pins on the PANEL > header. When you've done so, momentarily pressing the power switch, > shorts the two PWR pins on the PANEL header together, and that > is the signal for the computer to start. > > The PANEL header, is where devices on the front panel of the > computer case connect. > > In cases where the computer case is missing functions, you simply > don't have anything to fit on the pins. For example, some computer > cases don't have a RESET switch. If you were building a computer, > and it had no pair of wires for RESET, then the PANEL header would > end up with no connector on it. > > The bare minimum set of wires for the PANEL header, is PWR. You > can't very well use the computer, unless there is some means > to momentarily short the PWR pins together. In my example > of a PANEL header above, four of the five interfaces could > have nothing connected to it. But I do need PWR, to be able > to use the computer. > > Now, in your case, I used your user manual, to identify a header > which has the SPKR (speaker) pins on it. Look at your computer case. > Do you see a pair of wires lying on the bottom of the case unused ? > Does the connector on the end of the wires say "SPKR". Is the > connector size four pins, where the outside pins (pin 1 and pin 4) > have wires ? That is what you'd connect to the header on the motherboard. > > So either you have that black piezoelectric disc below the two IDE connectors, > or you do not. Check visually and see if the black disc (piezo > speaker) is present. If it isn't present, then you need to > investigate > > 1) Whether the computer case has an internal speaker intended for > PC Beep. The speaker itself is usually hidden, and can be held in > a separate plastic assembly in the front of the computer. Sometimes > a plastic holder has room for a small fan, and on the other side of > the assembly, the speaker is jammed into the plastic. > > 2) If you have a speaker, and the two wires are sitting there unused, > try connecting them to the pins labeled SPKR, as shown in your > user manual. > > When I look in the E6741v1.1.pdf document, the PANEL header is > documented on PDF page 28. In your case, there are two adjacent > sets of pins, JFP2 and JFP1, that make up the traditional set > of PANEL header functions. You have PLED, PWR, HDD, RESET on > one group of pins. The second connector has the SPKR pins on > it (as well as some confusing LED driving functions). > > http://download2.msi.com/files/downloads/mnu_exe/E6741v1.1.zip > > Look in the lower right hand corner of your motherboard. The > text "JFP2" and "JFP1" should be printed next to the header > pins. > > The diagram in the manual on PDF page 11, shows the PANEL functions > in the lower right hand corner. There, you can see how close > together JFP2 and JFP1 are. It *looks* like a 2x9 set of pins. > Other motherboards would just call that whole thing "PANEL". > If you connect the computer case speaker to the SPKR pins > on that thing, then you're ready for beep codes. > > Some computer cases (the up-scale ones), don't have the > built-in case speaker any more. You can always get a small > speaker from an old transistor radio, to use as a substitute. > As long as the motherboard has the SPKR interface on > the PANEL header, you can drive one. > > Paul > . > I did see the black piezo thing you speak of but I don't see any extra wires to connect to the spkr pins. A lot of this is a bit over my head and out my comfort level to try to do. I'm thinking of suggesting to replace the motherboard and be done with it. It'll be easier to replace instead doing all these tests. Are there any similar to this one that can be bought in any of the local electronic stores? |