From: Howard Brazee on
On 14 Apr 2007 13:42:36 -0700, "Alistair"
<alistair(a)ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Thanks Pete, a good response. I think that a problem with management
>is that we all think that we can do better if only we were in their
>shoes.

I doubt it. Think of sports stars. The stands are full of people
criticizing the quarterback - people who know that there's no way they
would survive on the field.

>The reality is that we would probably be worse at management
>than those we criticise. I know from having had disagreements with
>managers in the past that there often is much that they see that we do
>not know of, at the coalface, and I have certainly been grateful for
>their shields from time to time.

Even if I had the competence (which I don't) - I once had to fire
somebody. That was once too often, I won't be in that position
again.
From: Michael Mattias on
> Even if I had the competence (which I don't) - I once had to fire
> somebody. That was once too often, I won't be in that position
> again.

In my experience a common mistake is making the best <anything> the
<anything> manager.

Far too often this does nothing more than subtract a quality <anything>
while adding a crummy manager; a bad deal no matter how you do the math..

MCM



From: Anonymous on
In article <2qh7231fi9tlotbqmdi3afv7ue7fsn2ijj(a)4ax.com>,
Howard Brazee <howard(a)brazee.net> wrote:
>On 14 Apr 2007 13:42:36 -0700, "Alistair"
><alistair(a)ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

>>The reality is that we would probably be worse at management
>>than those we criticise. I know from having had disagreements with
>>managers in the past that there often is much that they see that we do
>>not know of, at the coalface, and I have certainly been grateful for
>>their shields from time to time.
>
>Even if I had the competence (which I don't) - I once had to fire
>somebody. That was once too often, I won't be in that position
>again.

I am reminded of a tale, perhaps apochryphal: in a class at Harvard a
professor gave an example to a roomful of MBA candidates, a conflict
between a line-worker and a supervisor. One student said that the
line-worker should be fired... after all, anyone can work an
assembley-line but a good supervisor is hard to find.

The professor left the lectern, stood in front of the student and declaime
that this was the *stupidest* thing he'd heard in all his years of
teaching and that he would not tolerate someone capable of generating this
kind of nonsense in his class... and the student was to get out, *now*.

The student (and the rest of the class) sat, dumbfounded... and the
professor then swept the books and papers (this was in the Oldene Dayse,
before students had computers) on to the floor and shouted 'GET OUT OF MY
CLASS, *NOW*!!!'

The student gathered his stuff and left the room... and then, when the
professor had returned to the lectern and resumed the class, crept back in
the door and sat in the last row.

The professor then stopped the discussion and called out 'So, Mr Jones...
tell us all what it is like to be fired.'

DD

From: Anonymous on
In article <37h7235mfp72i68g1vc2dv7hatkjh56ukf(a)4ax.com>,
Howard Brazee <howard(a)brazee.net> wrote:

[snip]

>My wife was complaining about some minimum wage workers who were
>incompetent for their jobs. I asked her - what should these people
>be doing? We can't force competency.

Leaving aside the question of 'who hired the incompetents?' - which, of
course, places the blame on Management - I would ask 'what is there that
encourages/rewards anything other than the 'some pretend to work while
others pretend to pay them' mentality?'... which brings into question the
entire Corporate Structure of Labor, Management and Executive groups.

(my Sainted Paternal Grandfather - may he sleep with the angels! - used to
say, long before things like Career Ladders and Empowerment were ever
buzzwords, 'you can tell who gets a piece of the till by the way they
move')

DD

From: Pete Dashwood on

"Howard Brazee" <howard(a)brazee.net> wrote in message
news:2qh7231fi9tlotbqmdi3afv7ue7fsn2ijj(a)4ax.com...
> On 14 Apr 2007 13:42:36 -0700, "Alistair"
> <alistair(a)ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Thanks Pete, a good response. I think that a problem with management
>>is that we all think that we can do better if only we were in their
>>shoes.
>
> I doubt it. Think of sports stars. The stands are full of people
> criticizing the quarterback - people who know that there's no way they
> would survive on the field.
>
>>The reality is that we would probably be worse at management
>>than those we criticise. I know from having had disagreements with
>>managers in the past that there often is much that they see that we do
>>not know of, at the coalface, and I have certainly been grateful for
>>their shields from time to time.
>
> Even if I had the competence (which I don't) - I once had to fire
> somebody. That was once too often, I won't be in that position
> again.

That you would feel this way, shows you were probably a good manager,
Howard.

I have fired less than half a dozen people in 20 years and every time I
looked on it as a failure on my part as well as theirs. It is never easy,
and it is always a last resort after warnings and attempts to redirect, or
because they have done something so outrageous and beyond the pale that it
is just unacceptable.

It is the horrible little weak pygmies of managers who actually enjoy firing
people. Fortunately, these guys don't usually last too long...

Pete.