Convolution Tutorial
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From: Chris Bore on 3 Jan 2010 05:22 On Jan 3, 2:27 am, Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> wrote: > Chris Bore wrote: > > On Dec 31 2009, 5:49 pm, Randy Yates <ya...(a)ieee.org> wrote: > >> Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> writes: > >>> Randy Yates wrote: > >>>> Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> writes: > >>>>> [...] > >>>>> Relying on a large brittle flange extending out from a stress raiser > >>>>> (abrupt change in section) is an engineering sin you wouldn't commit. > >>>> So when you asked the question, "Why are manhole covers round?", you > >>>> expected the answer to be based on such knowledge of materials? > >>> The expected answer is "So they don't fall through." Knowledge of > >>> materials is needed only to deal with nitpicking. :-) > >>> This was dealt with here before. > >> I don't think it has yet been dealt with properly until now. See my > >> recent (like, 2 minutes ago) post to Muzaffer Kal. > >> -- > >> Randy Yates % "She has an IQ of 1001, she has a jumpsuit > >> Digital Signal Labs % on, and she's also a telephone." > >> mailto://ya...(a)ieee.org %http://www.digitalsignallabs.com% 'Yours Truly, 2095', *Time*, ELO > > > Manhole covers here (Surrey, England) are rectangular. > > How frequently do they need to be fished out of the sewer? > > Jerry > -- > Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - They do get stolen, but I never heard of one going down the sewer. Maybe the sewer operatives are PhDs...
From: invalid on 3 Jan 2010 06:39 "Rune Allnor" <allnor(a)tele.ntnu.no> wrote in message news:d40f977a-af7e-4ee1-a556-29ff3038da48(a)j42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com... >> Mathematical analysis should come after practical experience and not >> before. > No. >> IMHO. > You are plain wrong. I am plain right. Engineering is applied maths, but applied to practical matters. With a grounding in the practical problems that you are trying to solve, then the maths becomes meaningful. In the context of this discussion (and I trust that it _IS_ a discussion and not a slanging match), to introduce convolution as an arcane mathematical operation is a theoretical diversion of no value. To demonstrate that it is the way that real systems respond and _THEN_ to derive the convolution integral from that behaviour is the way to present the message to engineers. Without that practical groundwork, then you are an acadaemic and not an engineer.
From: Jerry Avins on 3 Jan 2010 12:31 Chris Bore wrote: > On Jan 3, 2:27 am, Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> wrote: >> Chris Bore wrote: >>> On Dec 31 2009, 5:49 pm, Randy Yates <ya...(a)ieee.org> wrote: >>>> Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> writes: >>>>> Randy Yates wrote: >>>>>> Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> writes: >>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>> Relying on a large brittle flange extending out from a stress raiser >>>>>>> (abrupt change in section) is an engineering sin you wouldn't commit. >>>>>> So when you asked the question, "Why are manhole covers round?", you >>>>>> expected the answer to be based on such knowledge of materials? >>>>> The expected answer is "So they don't fall through." Knowledge of >>>>> materials is needed only to deal with nitpicking. :-) >>>>> This was dealt with here before. >>>> I don't think it has yet been dealt with properly until now. See my >>>> recent (like, 2 minutes ago) post to Muzaffer Kal. >>>> -- >>>> Randy Yates % "She has an IQ of 1001, she has a jumpsuit >>>> Digital Signal Labs % on, and she's also a telephone." >>>> mailto://ya...(a)ieee.org %http://www.digitalsignallabs.com% 'Yours Truly, 2095', *Time*, ELO >>> Manhole covers here (Surrey, England) are rectangular. >> How frequently do they need to be fished out of the sewer? >> >> Jerry >> -- >> Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > They do get stolen, but I never heard of one going down the sewer. > Maybe the sewer operatives are PhDs... Is it possible that when an open hole is seen and the assumption is that the cover was stolen, the cover fell in instead? Do you know about the "stolen" Revolutionary War canon on the Princeton University campus? Jerry There is an old canon on the campus said to be a relic of the Battle of Monmouth, buried muzzle down, with about a foot and a half projecting above ground. The weight is estimated to be about a ton. One morning, there was a large hole in the ground with dirt piled along side it and no canon in sight. Campus. municipal, and state police combed the campus looking for clues, wheel tracks, anything. Nothing. Two days later, a notice appeared on a bulletin board neat campus police office "LOOK UNDER THE DIRT". The canon had not been moved, merely buried. -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
From: brent on 3 Jan 2010 13:58 On Jan 3, 6:39 am, "invalid" <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > "Rune Allnor" <all...(a)tele.ntnu.no> wrote in message > > news:d40f977a-af7e-4ee1-a556-29ff3038da48(a)j42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com... > > >> Mathematical analysis should come after practical experience and not > >> before. > > No. > >> IMHO. > > You are plain wrong. > > I am plain right. > > Engineering is applied maths, but applied to practical matters. > > With a grounding in the practical problems that you are trying to > solve, then the maths becomes meaningful. > > In the context of this discussion (and I trust that it _IS_ a discussion > and not a slanging match), to introduce convolution > as an arcane mathematical operation is a theoretical diversion of no value. > > To demonstrate that it is the way that real systems respond and > _THEN_ to derive the convolution integral from that behaviour is the way to > present the message to engineers. > > Without that practical groundwork, then you are an acadaemic > and not an engineer. Concepts like convolution need to be understood as math and as a solution to a particular problem. I know that as I have read up on difficult topics, I have appreciated anything that might shed some further insight into what I am trying to learn. There is no comprehensive book on fourier series or fourier transform that every student will automatically read and then understand. I have found that exposure to many authors is required for the toughest concepts. I think you err in wanting everything to come together in one sitting or reading. Part of the beauty of difficult math is the journey to finally understanding it.
From: invalid on 3 Jan 2010 15:29
"brent" <bulegoge(a)columbus.rr.com> wrote in message news:348ec1e2-dd29-41b3-b771-18366ac0790c(a)h9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com... > I think you err in wanting everything to come together in one sitting > or reading. I made no statement to that effect, nor did I express such a wish. |