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From: Epsilon on 10 Feb 2010 16:22
Bradfield wrote:
> "Epsilon" <not(a)this.address.com> wrote in message
> news:hl0ajj$ubp$1(a)news.albasani.net...
>>
>>
>> Bradfield wrote:
>>> "Epsilon" <not(a)this.address.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hl04e0$khl$1(a)news.albasani.net...
>>>> Bradfield wrote:
>>>>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed
>>>>> owners?
>>>>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a
>>>>> software product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee, what
>>>>> happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could
>>>>> Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for using it?
>>>>
>>>> You will understand that this is hypothetical in that you have
>>>> given no information about who the parties are, where they are,
>>>> the terms of the licence, and what law applied to the agreement.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I do understand the question is hypothetical in nature.
>>>
>>>> Subject to those qualifications, the general rule is that where you
>>>> buy a licence to use a software product forever, and the
>>>> corporation that sold you the licence sells the software product
>>>> to a second corporation, you still retain your rights under the
>>>> licence. The second corporation buys the software product subject
>>>> to any licences already given, because the selling corporation
>>>> usually gives the buying corporation everything it owns concerning
>>>> the software product, but cannot give more than it owns.
>>>
>>> So if I was paying XYZ $1000 per year, could Microsoft demand the
>>> same from me?
>>
>> You first said that you paid a $1,000 on-off fee. Now it's a $1,000
>> pa fee. In that case, since the second corporation has presumably
>> bought everything the first corporation owned concerning the
>> software product (see above), including the right to that annual
>> fee, what has occurred is that you now pay the second corporation
>> the amount you were previously obliged to pay to the first
>> corporation. It's similar to your landlord selling the rented property to
>> a second
>> landlord. You as tenant stop paying the first landlord and start
>> paying the second landlord.
>>
>> If you had agreed to pay XYZ the $1,000 pa, what is your concern
>> about now paying Microsoft?
>>
>
> I should point out that I use the company names XYZ and Microsoft
> hypothetically.
>
> I am interested in whether Microsoft has the right to increase the
> per annum fee if it chooses. After all, they are the new copyright
> owners, right?

Yes, they are the new copyright owners. Its right to increase the pa fee
depends on the agreement you had with the first corporation, which is now
the agreement you have with the second corporation. It will probably all be
in the licence. If the first corporation had the right to increase the fee,
so will the second corporation.

>>>> The theoretical answer is so obvious that anyone reading your
>>>> question would wonder about your concern.

From: The Raven on 11 Feb 2010 03:07
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hl053l$lct$1(a)news.albasani.net...
> Bradfield wrote:
>
>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed owners?

End users generally aren't permitted to sell their license, however; if it's
a takeover/merger then most licensors accept that.

> There is no 'license' whatever the floggers of the software claim.

In as much as you can't onsell, sub-license, or otherwise resell the
product.

>
> The new owner is welcome to use the software.
>
> The previous owner is not legally allowed to keep using the software.

You need to review the original license. If transfer is permitted then it's
obviously a case of the old owner no longer having the right to use it.

>
>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a software
>> product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee,
>
> Hardly anyone does that. They just buy a retail product.

I don't think he's talking about Roddles buying a game from EB.

>
>> what happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could
>> Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for using it?
>
> Not legally, no. Your agreement was not with Microsoft.

They can purchase the rights of the original licensor, happens all the time.
What they can't do is change the terms of the license without you agreeing.
So, Rod is right they can't start charging you fees.

As for Microsoft agreements, you'll find that most of them are machine
dependant.



From: Rod Speed on 11 Feb 2010 03:47
Bradfield wrote
> Epsilon <not(a)this.address.com> wrote
>> Bradfield wrote

>>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed owners?
>>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a software
>>> product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee, what happens if
>>> Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could Microsoft start
>>> charging me $1000 a year for using it?

>> You will understand that this is hypothetical in that you have given
>> no information about who the parties are, where they are, the terms
>> of the licence, and what law applied to the agreement.

> I do understand the question is hypothetical in nature.

>> Subject to those qualifications, the general rule is that where you
>> buy a licence to use a software product forever, and the corporation
>> that sold you the licence sells the software product to a second
>> corporation, you still retain your rights under the licence. The
>> second corporation buys the software product subject to any licences
>> already given, because the selling corporation usually gives the
>> buying corporation everything it owns concerning the software
>> product, but cannot give more than it owns.

> So if I was paying XYZ $1000 per year, could Microsoft demand the same from me?

Depends entirely on the detail of the purported 'agreement' and the applicable law.

>> The theoretical answer is so obvious that anyone reading your question would wonder about your concern.


From: Rod Speed on 11 Feb 2010 03:50
Bradfield wrote:
> "Epsilon" <not(a)this.address.com> wrote in message
> news:hl0ajj$ubp$1(a)news.albasani.net...
>>
>>
>> Bradfield wrote:
>>> "Epsilon" <not(a)this.address.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hl04e0$khl$1(a)news.albasani.net...
>>>> Bradfield wrote:
>>>>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed
>>>>> owners?
>>>>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a
>>>>> software product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee, what
>>>>> happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could
>>>>> Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for using it?
>>>>
>>>> You will understand that this is hypothetical in that you have
>>>> given no information about who the parties are, where they are,
>>>> the terms of the licence, and what law applied to the agreement.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I do understand the question is hypothetical in nature.
>>>
>>>> Subject to those qualifications, the general rule is that where you
>>>> buy a licence to use a software product forever, and the
>>>> corporation that sold you the licence sells the software product
>>>> to a second corporation, you still retain your rights under the
>>>> licence. The second corporation buys the software product subject
>>>> to any licences already given, because the selling corporation
>>>> usually gives the buying corporation everything it owns concerning
>>>> the software product, but cannot give more than it owns.
>>>
>>> So if I was paying XYZ $1000 per year, could Microsoft demand the
>>> same from me?
>>
>> You first said that you paid a $1,000 on-off fee. Now it's a $1,000
>> pa fee. In that case, since the second corporation has presumably
>> bought everything the first corporation owned concerning the
>> software product (see above), including the right to that annual
>> fee, what has occurred is that you now pay the second corporation
>> the amount you were previously obliged to pay to the first
>> corporation. It's similar to your landlord selling the rented property to a second
>> landlord. You as tenant stop paying the first landlord and start
>> paying the second landlord.
>>
>> If you had agreed to pay XYZ the $1,000 pa, what is your concern
>> about now paying Microsoft?
>>
>
> I should point out that I use the company names XYZ and Microsoft
> hypothetically.
>
> I am interested in whether Microsoft has the right to increase the
> per annum fee if it chooses.

Depends on the detail of the purported 'agreement' and the applicable law.

> After all, they are the new copyright owners, right?

Even they are, that does not mean that they can charge anything
they like if the purported 'agreement' did not provide for that.

>>>> The theoretical answer is so obvious that anyone reading your
>>>> question would wonder about your concern.


From: Rod Speed on 11 Feb 2010 04:00
Bradfield wrote:
> "The Raven" <swilson150(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4b73b946$0$6096$afc38c87(a)news.optusnet.com.au...
>> "Bradfield" <bradfield(a)bradfield.moc> wrote in message
>> news:hl09aa$cc$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
>>>
>>> "Epsilon" <not(a)this.address.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hl04e0$khl$1(a)news.albasani.net...
>>>> Bradfield wrote:
>>>>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed
>>>>> owners?
>>>>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a
>>>>> software product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee, what
>>>>> happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could
>>>>> Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for using it?
>>>>
>>>> You will understand that this is hypothetical in that you have
>>>> given no information about who the parties are, where they are,
>>>> the terms of the licence, and what law applied to the agreement.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I do understand the question is hypothetical in nature.
>>>
>>>> Subject to those qualifications, the general rule is that where
>>>> you buy a licence to use a software product forever, and the
>>>> corporation that sold you the licence sells the software product
>>>> to a second corporation, you still retain your rights under the
>>>> licence. The second corporation buys the software product subject
>>>> to any licences already given, because the selling corporation
>>>> usually gives the buying corporation everything it owns concerning
>>>> the software product, but cannot give more than it owns.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So if I was paying XYZ $1000 per year, could Microsoft demand the
>>> same from me?
>>
>> Yes, that's standard practice. Of course, you could probably
>> terminate the agreement. Take a look for termination clauses.
>>
>
> Yes, but wouldn't terminating the agreement mean I wouldn't have the
> right to use the software anymore?

Nope, not with your original one off fee.

>>>> The theoretical answer is so obvious that anyone reading your
>>>> question would wonder about your concern.


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