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From: Epsilon on 11 Feb 2010 04:12
Rod Speed wrote:
> Bradfield wrote:
>> "The Raven" <swilson150(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:4b73b946$0$6096$afc38c87(a)news.optusnet.com.au...
>>> "Bradfield" <bradfield(a)bradfield.moc> wrote in message
>>> news:hl09aa$cc$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>
>>>> "Epsilon" <not(a)this.address.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:hl04e0$khl$1(a)news.albasani.net...
>>>>> Bradfield wrote:
>>>>>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed
>>>>>> owners?
>>>>>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a
>>>>>> software product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee, what
>>>>>> happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could
>>>>>> Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for using it?
>>>>>
>>>>> You will understand that this is hypothetical in that you have
>>>>> given no information about who the parties are, where they are,
>>>>> the terms of the licence, and what law applied to the agreement.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do understand the question is hypothetical in nature.
>>>>
>>>>> Subject to those qualifications, the general rule is that where
>>>>> you buy a licence to use a software product forever, and the
>>>>> corporation that sold you the licence sells the software product
>>>>> to a second corporation, you still retain your rights under the
>>>>> licence. The second corporation buys the software product subject
>>>>> to any licences already given, because the selling corporation
>>>>> usually gives the buying corporation everything it owns concerning
>>>>> the software product, but cannot give more than it owns.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So if I was paying XYZ $1000 per year, could Microsoft demand the
>>>> same from me?
>>>
>>> Yes, that's standard practice. Of course, you could probably
>>> terminate the agreement. Take a look for termination clauses.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, but wouldn't terminating the agreement mean I wouldn't have the
>> right to use the software anymore?
>
> Nope, not with your original one off fee.

Yes, it would. If he could, for some reason, terminate that agreement, it's
at an end and the right to use the software is ended.

>>>>> The theoretical answer is so obvious that anyone reading your
>>>>> question would wonder about your concern.

From: Rod Speed on 11 Feb 2010 03:58
The Raven wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa(a)gmail.com> wrote
>> Bradfield wrote

>>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed owners?

> End users generally aren't permitted to sell their license,

Wrong, legally.

If you bought the software at retail, there in no 'license', you
own what you have bought and can sell it to anyone you like.

> however; if it's a takeover/merger then most licensors accept that.

Doesnt matter what they 'accept', legally. They get to like it or lump it.

>> There is no 'license' whatever the floggers of the software claim.

> In as much as you can't onsell, sub-license, or otherwise resell the product.

Yes you can under australian law when you bought software sold at retail.

>> The new owner is welcome to use the software.

>> The previous owner is not legally allowed to keep using the software.

> You need to review the original license.

There is no 'license' with software you bought at retail.

> If transfer is permitted then it's obviously a case of the old owner no longer having the right to use it.

The purported 'license' is completely irrelevant to your legal rights.

That is true in spades of other copyrighted material like a book etc.

>>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a software product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee,

>> Hardly anyone does that. They just buy a retail product.

> I don't think he's talking about Roddles buying a game from EB.

It isnt at all clear what he is actually talking about, he keeps changing the detail.

>>> what happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for using
>>> it?

>> Not legally, no. Your agreement was not with Microsoft.

> They can purchase the rights of the original licensor,

You havent established with software sold at retail that there is any licensor.

> happens all the time.

MUCH more often its just bought at retail and you can do anything you like with
that, just like you can with any other copyrighted material like a book or DVD etc.

> What they can't do is change the terms of the license without you agreeing.

You havent established that there is any license at all.

> So, Rod is right they can't start charging you fees.

> As for Microsoft agreements, you'll find that most of them are machine dependant.

What Microsoft claims is an entirely separate matter to australian law.



From: Rod Speed on 11 Feb 2010 13:12
Epsilon wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Bradfield wrote
>>> The Raven <swilson150(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote
>>>> Bradfield <bradfield(a)bradfield.moc> wrote
>>>>> Epsilon <not(a)this.address.com> wrote
>>>>>> Bradfield wrote

>>>>>>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed owners?

>>>>>>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a
>>>>>>> software product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee, what
>>>>>>> happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could
>>>>>>> Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for using it?

>>>>>> You will understand that this is hypothetical in that you have
>>>>>> given no information about who the parties are, where they are,
>>>>>> the terms of the licence, and what law applied to the agreement.

>>>>> I do understand the question is hypothetical in nature.

>>>>>> Subject to those qualifications, the general rule is that where
>>>>>> you buy a licence to use a software product forever, and the
>>>>>> corporation that sold you the licence sells the software product
>>>>>> to a second corporation, you still retain your rights under the
>>>>>> licence. The second corporation buys the software product
>>>>>> subject to any licences already given, because the selling
>>>>>> corporation usually gives the buying corporation everything it
>>>>>> owns concerning the software product, but cannot give more than
>>>>>> it owns.

>>>>> So if I was paying XYZ $1000 per year, could Microsoft demand the same from me?

>>>> Yes, that's standard practice. Of course, you could probably
>>>> terminate the agreement. Take a look for termination clauses.

>>> Yes, but wouldn't terminating the agreement mean I wouldn't have the right to use the software anymore?

>> Nope, not with your original one off fee.

> Yes, it would.

No it would not under australian law.

> If he could, for some reason, terminate that agreement,

You havent established that there is any agreement.

> it's at an end and the right to use the software is ended.

Wrong with a one off fee.

>>>>>> The theoretical answer is so obvious that anyone reading your question would wonder about your concern.


From: Epsilon on 11 Feb 2010 14:34
Rod Speed wrote:
> Epsilon wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Bradfield wrote
>>>> The Raven <swilson150(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote
>>>>> Bradfield <bradfield(a)bradfield.moc> wrote
>>>>>> Epsilon <not(a)this.address.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Bradfield wrote
>
>>>>>>>> What is the status of licences to use software that has
>>>>>>>> changed owners?
>
>>>>>>>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a
>>>>>>>> software product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee, what
>>>>>>>> happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could
>>>>>>>> Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for using it?
>
>>>>>>> You will understand that this is hypothetical in that you have
>>>>>>> given no information about who the parties are, where they are,
>>>>>>> the terms of the licence, and what law applied to the agreement.
>
>>>>>> I do understand the question is hypothetical in nature.
>
>>>>>>> Subject to those qualifications, the general rule is that where
>>>>>>> you buy a licence to use a software product forever, and the
>>>>>>> corporation that sold you the licence sells the software product
>>>>>>> to a second corporation, you still retain your rights under the
>>>>>>> licence. The second corporation buys the software product
>>>>>>> subject to any licences already given, because the selling
>>>>>>> corporation usually gives the buying corporation everything it
>>>>>>> owns concerning the software product, but cannot give more than
>>>>>>> it owns.
>
>>>>>> So if I was paying XYZ $1000 per year, could Microsoft demand
>>>>>> the same from me?
>
>>>>> Yes, that's standard practice. Of course, you could probably
>>>>> terminate the agreement. Take a look for termination clauses.
>
>>>> Yes, but wouldn't terminating the agreement mean I wouldn't have
>>>> the right to use the software anymore?
>
>>> Nope, not with your original one off fee.
>
>> Yes, it would.
>
> No it would not under australian law.
>
>> If he could, for some reason, terminate that agreement,
>
> You havent established that there is any agreement.

I don't have to do anything of the kind. Apart from the OP explicitly
saying there is, in the situation contemplated, $1,000 was paid as a one-off
fee, so there certainly was some sort of agreement.

>> it's at an end and the right to use the software is ended.
>
> Wrong with a one off fee.

No. You should have crossed your legs and kept them crossed.

>>>>>>> The theoretical answer is so obvious that anyone reading your
>>>>>>> question would wonder about your concern.

From: The Raven on 11 Feb 2010 16:22
"Bradfield" <bradfield(a)bradfield.moc> wrote in message
news:hl0e74$6c9$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
>
> "The Raven" <swilson150(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4b73b946$0$6096$afc38c87(a)news.optusnet.com.au...
>> "Bradfield" <bradfield(a)bradfield.moc> wrote in message
>> news:hl09aa$cc$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
>>>
>>> "Epsilon" <not(a)this.address.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hl04e0$khl$1(a)news.albasani.net...
>>>> Bradfield wrote:
>>>>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed
>>>>> owners?
>>>>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a software
>>>>> product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee, what happens if
>>>>> Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could Microsoft start
>>>>> charging me $1000 a year for using it?
>>>>
>>>> You will understand that this is hypothetical in that you have given no
>>>> information about who the parties are, where they are, the terms of the
>>>> licence, and what law applied to the agreement.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I do understand the question is hypothetical in nature.
>>>
>>>> Subject to those qualifications, the general rule is that where you buy
>>>> a licence to use a software product forever, and the corporation that
>>>> sold you the licence sells the software product to a second
>>>> corporation, you still retain your rights under the licence. The
>>>> second corporation buys the software product subject to any licences
>>>> already given, because the selling corporation usually gives the buying
>>>> corporation everything it owns concerning the software product, but
>>>> cannot give more than it owns.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So if I was paying XYZ $1000 per year, could Microsoft demand the same
>>> from me?
>>
>> Yes, that's standard practice. Of course, you could probably terminate
>> the agreement. Take a look for termination clauses.
>>
>
> Yes, but wouldn't terminating the agreement mean I wouldn't have the right
> to use the software anymore?

Most licenses allow you to terminate the annual support fees etc but retain
the right to use the product.



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