Prev: Need to test a mobo - how?
Next: Ready for upgrade!....but in which order?!
From: John on 2 May 2010 21:07

My 7 year old XP desktop is about shot and I don't believe its worth
bothering with. I built it myself but 7 years is a long time in computer
terms so obviously I am clueless in 2010.

Here is what I need:

1. Windows 7

2. Motherboard and 4 gig memory --- 2 or 4 cores whatever is the best
bang for the buck, AMD or Intel - doesn't matter to me. Must also have a
PATA port to support one old hard drive and temporarily a zip drive to
retrieve backed up info. Support for an internal floppy.

3. Sata hard drive - 200-250 gig or so should be more than enough.

4. Sata 5.25 CD/DVD burner - light tan bezel to match an older case.

5. Video card - I am not a gamer - but I do watch the occasional video.
Will use a a CRT monitor for now but will upgrade to LCD later.

6. Quality power supply.

What I have on hand:
3.5 floppy
ZIP drive
CRT monitor
keyboard (IBM clickety-clack) I am a programmer
optical mouse
A large ATX tower with two 3.5 and three 5.25 external bays + three 3.5
internal bays. It also has two exhaust fans (2.875 dia. - 73mm ?) .
Four working pata drives including one ATA133.

The problem is everything except the mouse is the old light tan color
and I dont know if they even still make CD/DVD and floppy drives in that
color anymore. But I like this case, its easy to work in due to its size
and has slide in external and lever type internal bays. I suppose I
could paint it but I would rather not.

The new build will be used for surfing, word processing, programming (C,
C++ etc) and general home use.

I must maintain some old software so will need to dual boot to get a DOS
prompt. I have most of the older MS operating systems from DOS to XP
available so that isn't a problem - I hope!

Anyone have suggestions for an economy build in the $300-325 range? As
fast a system as possible given the low dollar amount.

Thanks,
John

From: ShadowTek on 2 May 2010 21:45
On 2010-05-03, John <John(a)nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> 2. Motherboard and 4 gig memory --- 2 or 4 cores whatever is the best
> bang for the buck, AMD or Intel - doesn't matter to me. Must also have a
> PATA port to support one old hard drive and temporarily a zip drive to
> retrieve backed up info. Support for an internal floppy.

Here's a motherboard and CPU I recently bought that gets good performace.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128380
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115056

That's about $200, and you'll still need memory, which is a lot more
expensive than it was a year ago.
From: ShadowTek on 2 May 2010 21:55
On 2010-05-03, John <John(a)nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> Here is what I need:
>
> 1. Windows 7

$???

> 3. Sata hard drive - 200-250 gig or so should be more than enough.

$70?

> 4. Sata 5.25 CD/DVD burner - light tan bezel to match an older case.

$20?

> 5. Video card - I am not a gamer - but I do watch the occasional video.
> Will use a a CRT monitor for now but will upgrade to LCD later.

$50?

> 6. Quality power supply.

$50?

> What I have on hand:
> 3.5 floppy
> ZIP drive
> CRT monitor
> keyboard (IBM clickety-clack) I am a programmer
> optical mouse
> A large ATX tower with two 3.5 and three 5.25 external bays + three 3.5
> internal bays. It also has two exhaust fans (2.875 dia. - 73mm ?) .
> Four working pata drives including one ATA133.

At least you won't need a case; that'd be about another $100 for a full
tower.

> Anyone have suggestions for an economy build in the $300-325 range? As
> fast a system as possible given the low dollar amount.

I don't think you're going to make it in inder $325.

The most demanding activity that you listed is watching video, which
will require a good CPU or video card if you ever want to watch anything
in 720p or greater.

If you've never tried Linux before, I'd suggest
looking into it. That'll save you some cash on the OS costs.
From: Paul on 3 May 2010 01:43
John wrote:
>
> My 7 year old XP desktop is about shot and I don't believe its worth
> bothering with. I built it myself but 7 years is a long time in computer
> terms so obviously I am clueless in 2010.
>
> Here is what I need:
>
> 1. Windows 7
>
> 2. Motherboard and 4 gig memory --- 2 or 4 cores whatever is the best
> bang for the buck, AMD or Intel - doesn't matter to me. Must also have a
> PATA port to support one old hard drive and temporarily a zip drive to
> retrieve backed up info. Support for an internal floppy.
>
> 3. Sata hard drive - 200-250 gig or so should be more than enough.
>
> 4. Sata 5.25 CD/DVD burner - light tan bezel to match an older case.
>
> 5. Video card - I am not a gamer - but I do watch the occasional video.
> Will use a a CRT monitor for now but will upgrade to LCD later.
>
> 6. Quality power supply.
>
> What I have on hand:
> 3.5 floppy
> ZIP drive
> CRT monitor
> keyboard (IBM clickety-clack) I am a programmer
> optical mouse
> A large ATX tower with two 3.5 and three 5.25 external bays + three 3.5
> internal bays. It also has two exhaust fans (2.875 dia. - 73mm ?) .
> Four working pata drives including one ATA133.
>
> The problem is everything except the mouse is the old light tan color
> and I dont know if they even still make CD/DVD and floppy drives in that
> color anymore. But I like this case, its easy to work in due to its size
> and has slide in external and lever type internal bays. I suppose I
> could paint it but I would rather not.
>
> The new build will be used for surfing, word processing, programming (C,
> C++ etc) and general home use.
>
> I must maintain some old software so will need to dual boot to get a DOS
> prompt. I have most of the older MS operating systems from DOS to XP
> available so that isn't a problem - I hope!
>
> Anyone have suggestions for an economy build in the $300-325 range? As
> fast a system as possible given the low dollar amount.
>
> Thanks,
> John
>

Note: When i pick hardware, I don't always pick the cheapest stuff.
Some of it is just too risky, to be recommended. So the following
is just some ballpark numbers.

AMD covers a pretty wide range at the low end. You'd head to AMD,
if shaving off every nickel.

A hard disk for $45.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148451

Optical drive for $25. Might as well get a burner, considering the prices.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204

2x2GB DDR2-800 CAS5 for $108 (I selected DDR2 to try to save money)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122

Motherboard for $100. Details in a moment.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138146

That one is "buzz word" compliant. It is a full sized motherboard.
The VCore regulator supports processors up to 140W, so you don't have to
throw away the motherboard, if you upgrade the processor to the fastest
thing AMD makes.

It has a mix of slots, for easy upgrading later.

It has built-in graphics. You don't have to buy a video card.
The connectors on the motherboard, include DVI and VGA, which
should cover most cheap monitor connections. It claims HDMI,
but I didn't look at the details at all.

The 790GX has built-in graphics. This article, says the built-in
GPU is HD3300.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_700_chipset_series

HD3300 is UVD2. UVD2 is an accelerator for video playback. Certain
movie player applications can tap into the acceleration feature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder

On that Biostar board, they included sideport memory on the chipset.
The sideport memory is a private memory chip, used by the GPU.
It doesn't seem to make much difference, but it is there anyway.
Part of your $100 purchase. That is what the "128M" in the product
description is referring to - a 128MB RAM chip, soldered to the
side of the Northbridge, and used by the GPU. If that optional chip
was removed, the built-in graphics would use some system memory (UMA).

The board takes DDR2 memory, which I selected in the hopes of getting
the cheapest memory available. You can always take a look at DDR3, and
see if it is cheaper. And then, select another motherboard, one with
DDR3. And in a quick check, indeed, I can find DDR3 memory for about
the same price. So that opens up more motherboard choices, if
I wanted to go back and shop for the items all over again.

Now, throw in a processor.
First, I take a look in the CPU support table, to see whether they
officially support my purchase. The 555 isn't listed, but the 550 is.
(Ideally, you want a motherboard manufacturer, who keeps up to date,
and has the latest processors in their table.)

http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/cpu_support.php?S_ID=408

AMD Phenom II X2 x550

Then pick a dual core for $88. We're up to 3100Mhz.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103847

So now our project cost is:

45+25+108+100+88= $366

I attempted to save money, by getting a board with integrated
graphics, and a graphics choice that has video playback acceleration.
If I bought a $50 motherboard and $50 video card, I wouldn't save
any money that way. And the video card will have a minimum cost,
to get something that might have video playback acceleration. You can
get video cards for perhaps $25 or $30, if you didn't care at all
about what they accelerated. You'd spend a few dollars more, for
something more current and up to date.

I could cut the memory in half, and buy 2x1GB for about half the
price of the other product. That saves $50 or so. That actually helps
in this case, in moving me towards the $300 target.

I could go looking for a much cheaper motherboard, but then I
might get a chipset with no video acceleration. That isn't all bad.
If the CPU has a high enough clock speed, you might still be OK
for video playback. My current system, doesn't have any fancy
video acceleration, and I can still smoothly play some Flash
video full screen.

You could drop further down on the processor. This one is $65
and probably not that much different than the one I selected for $88.
That shaves off another $23.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103681

So I can make $300, mainly by going with 2x1GB and using the $65 processor.
Now my project cost is approximately:

45+25+54+100+65= $289

(I simply took the memory price and cut it in half. You should be able
to find 2x1GB for $54, but I didn't check.)

In terms of ATX power, as long as you have at least a 20 pin
connector (20 pin power works in 24 pin motherboards), and the
power supply has a ATX12V 2x2 square plug for the processor, chances
are you'll have enough power. As long as your power supply is still
working, you might be able to reuse it.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html

(Plugging 20 pin power, into a 24 pin motherboard.)
http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/20in24.jpg

The dual core covers off the basics for your processing requirements.
You might have regrets about such a choice, if you did nothing all
day but shrink DVD files so you could burn them on single sided
DVDs. But for a lot of other applications, a dual is perfectly
acceptable. For a lot of people, a quad spends most of its
time "sleeping".

Windows 7 changes the picture a little bit, and would likely
encourage more CPU and memory. But we're on a budget. It may
be worth the extra $54, to keep the full 4GB.

You can use this page, to see what AMD makes in terms of CPUs.

http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUResult.aspx

*******

If I wanted to go Intel, I'd select:

Motherboard $67
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157115

E6600 "Pentium" dual core 3.06GHz $98 (it's not in the Asrock CPU table)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116347

Video card with UVD2.2 $33
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150335

(They have a video card compatibility table, and that card isn't on it.)
http://www.asrock.com/mb/vga.asp?Model=4CoreDual-SATA2%20R2.0

The selections I just made, are purely speculative, more speculative
than my AMD choices above. But I picked them, to see how close
I could get to matching the price.

So compare that to the AMD solution. With AMD, I'm paying $100+$88
versus 67+98+33= 198 for an Intel solution. I've owned that Asrock motherboard,
and it is fine at stock settings. I use a hacked BIOS from Germany
to get working EIST (for power saving at idle). The main benefit of that
motherboard, is the support for legacy interfaces. It even had a serial
RS232 port. I managed to install Win98 on it, by using an AGP video card.
It accepts either AGP video or PCI Express video, but the PCI Express
slot is wired for x4 lanes (roughly the same bandwidth as AGP 4X).

You can get an Intel pricelist here, to see how much cheaper you
could do than an Pentium E6600. The E6600 was selected, because it supports
virtualization (VT-x), and some of the cheaper ones don't. Same goes with
the Core2 Duo flavor - some don't have VT-x, like the E4700 I happened
to buy, before I found out about virtualization.

http://www.intc.com/priceList.cfm

(You can check for Intel VT-x, in the charts here. Pentium E6600 3.06Ghz has it.)
http://ark.intel.com/ProductCollection.aspx?familyId=41877

Paul
From: "nobody >" on 3 May 2010 02:21
Paul wrote:

> Motherboard for $100. Details in a moment.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138146
>
> That one is "buzz word" compliant. It is a full sized motherboard.
> The VCore regulator supports processors up to 140W, so you don't have to
> throw away the motherboard, if you upgrade the processor to the fastest
> thing AMD makes.
>
> It has a mix of slots, for easy upgrading later.
>
> It has built-in graphics. You don't have to buy a video card.
> The connectors on the motherboard, include DVI and VGA, which
> should cover most cheap monitor connections. It claims HDMI,
> but I didn't look at the details at all.
>
> The 790GX has built-in graphics. This article, says the built-in
> GPU is HD3300.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_700_chipset_series
>
> HD3300 is UVD2. UVD2 is an accelerator for video playback. Certain
> movie player applications can tap into the acceleration feature.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder
>
> On that Biostar board, they included sideport memory on the chipset.
> The sideport memory is a private memory chip, used by the GPU.
> It doesn't seem to make much difference, but it is there anyway.
> Part of your $100 purchase. That is what the "128M" in the product
> description is referring to - a 128MB RAM chip, soldered to the
> side of the Northbridge, and used by the GPU. If that optional chip
> was removed, the built-in graphics would use some system memory (UMA).
>
> The board takes DDR2 memory, which I selected in the hopes of getting
> the cheapest memory available. You can always take a look at DDR3, and
> see if it is cheaper. And then, select another motherboard, one with
> DDR3. And in a quick check, indeed, I can find DDR3 memory for about
> the same price. So that opens up more motherboard choices, if
> I wanted to go back and shop for the items all over again.
>
> Now, throw in a processor.
> First, I take a look in the CPU support table, to see whether they
> officially support my purchase. The 555 isn't listed, but the 550 is.
> (Ideally, you want a motherboard manufacturer, who keeps up to date,
> and has the latest processors in their table.)
>
> http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/cpu_support.php?S_ID=408
>
> AMD Phenom II X2 x550
>
> Then pick a dual core for $88. We're up to 3100Mhz.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103847
>
> So now our project cost is:
>

Not to mention that the Phenom II X2's often will unlock to 4 cores on
many motherboards.

http://www.biostar-usa.com/app/en-us/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=377

AMD OverDrive� with ACC feature (Advanced Clock Calibration) supported

The ACC is the key to it.
 |  Next  |  Last
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5
Prev: Need to test a mobo - how?
Next: Ready for upgrade!....but in which order?!