From: hutch-- on 28 Aug 2005 01:11
This is the bit I don't get, I have made no secret that I am willing to
defend an old friend who has retired from anyone capitalising on his
name and I don't offer any apology for it.
Betov did ask Iczelion and he had the right to port the tutorials to
SPASM but anyone who did not ask has no right at all. Iczelion posted
his tutorials for anyone to use without any restriction on what
language they could be used for and this allowed anyone to write code
using his tutorials as reference but it did not give them any right to
try and capitalise on his name.
He did not write any other versions in any other language and the only
tutorials written by him are on his web site. When someone ports
Iczelion;s work to another language, they are NOT Iczelion's work and
should not be referred to in that manner.
If someone wants to give credit to Iczelion for his original design
work and tutorial format, fine but no-one has the right to capitalise
on his name, they should put their own name on any code they write and
if they have used his work as reference for the entire app design, they
should publish that note in their work.
hutch at movsd dot com
From: Betov on 28 Aug 2005 03:27
"hutch--" <hutch(a)movsd.com> ýcrivait news:1125145660.106155.313140
> I thought this one as died a natural death but I just picked up this
> comment from Randall Hyde that indicates the level of confusion he
> suffered with my original warning about people trying to cash in on
> Iczelion's name.
Yes: You shot a bullet on me (the very wrong person,
in that matter), and your good old friend got it into
his rat face. Therefore the "confusion", and your
"not so natural death".
< http://rosasm.org >
From: hutch-- on 28 Aug 2005 03:41
Promise you will hold your breath waiting for an apology.
I would happily do so for a normal human being but I owe you many
injustices in return so it will be a long time coming.
Just open another bottle of "sauce", it will help keep your legs warm.
hutch at movsd dot com
From: Guga on 28 Aug 2005 04:31
"Iczelion posted his tutorials for anyone to use without any
restriction on what language they could be used for and this allowed
anyone to write code using his tutorials as reference but it did not
give them any right to try and capitalise on his name. "
I totally agree. If you meant with capitalise is ear money, or have
more publicity or promotion, or whatever one can get´s over
Iczelion´s work, you are right to defend. This is not only because of
the forbidden of using his tutorials for commercials purposes as he
said in his site, but gaining anything over his name is the main
And this is something that is not easy to be avoided.
"When someone ports Iczelion;s work to another language, they are NOT
Iczelion's work and should not be referred to in that manner. "
Sure. This is correct. It is not anymore the original Iczelion´s work.
It is the work of someone who translated Iczelions tutorials. So he
must reference only where "his tutorial" was biased from.
This is the correct to do, specially because if upon the porting, for
some reason, the translated code is wrong, it will not be Iczelions
work that is wrong, but the trabslator´s work that is incorrect.
But, this is the way it should be, and may not represent the way that
"no-one has the right to capitalise on his name"
Yes, but don´t you agree that worst then this capitalization, is whom
never wrote or ported Iczelion´s work and yet capitalize somehow over
his name ?
This situation can also happens.
And what can you do about that ? Get mad, probably, but...effectively
you cannot do too much to avoid such situations. You can, although,
keep your eyes open to preserve your work, because your work is at your
hands. But Iczelion´s works, unfortunatelly, are not. So there is very
few things that you can do to prevent or to help.
I´m not saying to you drop helping someone you consider as a friend.
Far from that !!!, I´m just saying that you are facing a situation
where there is nothing you can do to help others, except helping
yourself, except preventing your work, and your own reputation.
The only thing that i´m quite don´t understand, is that on all these
years, now you opened your eeys and rased a flag to your friend ? What
happend to just now you decided to do such support ?
What you feel that is happening now, was happening before, maybe was
only you who was not seeing that.
So, now it may not change you try to help. Now, it maybe too late to
you avoid any damages (If you think that this is damaging). This is why
the best you can do is preserve your work, preserve your reputation
while you still have one, while you still want to maintain it.
We have a popular dictate here "Papagaio come milho, periquito leva a
fama"(Parrot eat maize, Lovebird takes the glory), meaning someone do
the hard job to another one takes the fame.
It is sad, but unfortunatelly, such things can happens.
Maybe you are also worried about your own work that are in danger of
this capitalization ? But, if it´s it, you are the one that can
prevent such things. You are still on active.
From: Betov on 28 Aug 2005 10:18
"hutch--" <hutch(a)movsd.com> ýcrivait news:1125205908.664256.91420
> Betov did ask Iczelion and he had the right to port the tutorials to
> SPASM but anyone who did not ask has no right at all. Iczelion posted
> his tutorials for anyone to use without any restriction on what
> language they could be used for and this allowed anyone to write code
> using his tutorials as reference but it did not give them any right to
> try and capitalise on his name.
You are fully right on that point, but the complete story
is that, when you took a run on this subject, you were
targeting _me_. Now, the real facts are that:
On my side, i did a _LOT_ of works, contributed to many
Demos, collaborated with several of the pioneers, (for
example, Test Departement and Ron Thomas), wrote two and
half Megas of Assembly Sources, two megas of _valid_
Documentation, and so on...
On Randall Hyde side, we all perfectly know that he never
contributed to _anything_, but to his personal Self-Selling
activities, and to megas of junk Pdfd, designed to misslead
the beginners, at the only cost of rephrasing the others
works, and of re-using the others Tools.
So, feel free to through your bullets on the accurate target,
that is,... in your own camp.
By the way, given the poor quantity of little things you
did in the whole story (collecting a couple of Win32 Equates
and writing _ONE_ poor little Text Editor, that you would
be ashamed of showing the Source of...), you better begin
by shooting your bullets into your own face, because, after
having done so few, and so pathetic, along so many years,
claiming to be, so to say, the official representant of the
most famous among the Win32 Asm pioneers, is ridiculous:
You are a real _nobody_, Hutch, and you chest bombing
gesticulations cannot replace any done real work. We all
perfectly understand that your absurd defense of the
MicroSoft C-Side-Toy, that you redistribute illegaly,
has no other mean but to give yourself some importance
that you never had, otherwise, by anything really done.
In other words, you are the same nobody as Master Pdf:
* He feels confortable with "capitalizing" on the others
works and names.
* You feel confortable with "capitalizing" on a MicroSoft
Product, and on the work of your "friends".
I am really unable to tell which is worst.
< http://rosasm.org >