M$ Ending Open Discussion Newsgroups!
in [Windows XP]
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From: milt on 6 May 2010 23:57 On 5/5/2010 8:44 PM, El Kot wrote: > > No they're not. They got started on M$ servers, but now they are all > over the place. Pulling the plug of the M$ servers will stop just these > servers, and nothing else. The groups will live on. > No, the groups will die because they started out on the microsoft servers. What other servers carry these groups? None that I can think of.
From: El Kot on 7 May 2010 01:00 milt wrote: > On 5/5/2010 8:44 PM, El Kot wrote: >> >> No they're not. They got started on M$ servers, but now they are all >> over the place. Pulling the plug of the M$ servers will stop just these >> servers, and nothing else. The groups will live on. >> > > No, the groups will die because they started out on the microsoft > servers. Nonsense. Will a river stop flowing, if you cut off the spring? Of course not, and it will be the same here. > What other servers carry these groups? None that I can think of. I can't think of one that doesn't. All three that I use - news.sunsite.dk, news.eternal-september.org, and nntp.aioe.org - carry them. The admin of eternal-september was explicitly asked, and replied he has no intention of honoring M$'s rmgroup commands. Which server do you use that doesn't carry them?
From: Paul on 7 May 2010 07:54
El Kot wrote: > milt wrote: >> On 5/5/2010 8:44 PM, El Kot wrote: >>> >>> No they're not. They got started on M$ servers, but now they are all >>> over the place. Pulling the plug of the M$ servers will stop just these >>> servers, and nothing else. The groups will live on. >>> >> >> No, the groups will die because they started out on the microsoft >> servers. > > Nonsense. Will a river stop flowing, if you cut off the spring? Of > course not, and it will be the same here. > > > > What other servers carry these groups? None that I can think of. > > I can't think of one that doesn't. All three that I use - > news.sunsite.dk, news.eternal-september.org, and nntp.aioe.org - carry > them. The admin of eternal-september was explicitly asked, and replied > he has no intention of honoring M$'s rmgroup commands. Which server do > you use that doesn't carry them? These are some of the responses from "Ray Banana", who runs eternal-september.org. This is from the "eternal-september.support" group on his server, in a thread entitled "Question about the Microsoft groups" 5/5/2010 11:15 PM. ******* "Indeed. If Microsoft sends a syntactically correct and properly signed control message, I will certainly honour it." ******* "Sorry, I was just being sarcastic. Microsoft has never bothered to issue control messages for its microsoft.* groups and I assume they will just switch off their servers and leave the mess behind that they have been inflicting on Usenet for more than fifteen years. Right now, there are 1772 microsoft.public.* groups on E-S and many of them are empty or just filled with spam. As Microsoft will not create new "official" groups or remove obsolete groups on its own servers anymore, Juli�n �lie will consequentially stop issuing "virtual" checkgroups control messages for the microsoft.* hierarchy and hence it's in the sole discretion of each NSP to decide which microsoft.* groups, if any, they are going to carry after Microsoft will finally FOAD Usenet-wise, which will inevitably lead to inconsistent group lists and will definitely not improve the usability of this hierarchy. It would take enormous efforts to restructure the namespace, cut back the proliferations of Microsoft's naming conventions and make it Usenet compliant, so I doubt this can be achieved without a maintainer. With all this in mind, I would suggest to abandon the microsoft.* mess as FUBAR and create a set of newsgroups within and in accordance with the rules of the existing and established hierarchies." ******* "> When Juli�n �lie issues rmgroup control articles, will > eternal-september honour them? Given the current settings of E-S's control.ctl, no." ******* So that gives a somewhat prioritized approach to what will happen. 1) If Microsoft issues the control messages, the microsoft.* will be removed from newsservers honoring those control messages. 2) If the proxy agent Juli�n �lie issues the messages, then discretion will play a part in the decision. 3) Given the hierarchy is a mess, and no one will be maintaining it, the existing groups could continue to function as they currently do. If someone wanted to add microsoft.public.windows7.* to the hierarchy, there might not be any mechanism to do that in an organized fashion. So if Microsoft issued the control messages, then the groups would disappear. (Their opinion would carry a stronger weight.) Otherwise, it's like a car without a steering wheel. It'll just continue driving, all over the countryside. Yehaa! HTH, Paul |