Mcafee Startup
in [Windows XP]
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From: Ken Blake, MVP on 26 Sep 2009 10:07 On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 23:56:22 -0400, "Daave" <daave(a)example.com> wrote: > BillW50 wrote: > > In news:em6qb5tij3c8d8o8ttnl6qjbglqs69grej(a)4ax.com, > > Ken Blake, MVP typed on Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:38:46 -0700: > > [...] > >> I used to recommend third-party firewalls over the Windows one > >> because they were two-way, and the Windows firewall only monitored > >> incoming traffic. > >> > >> I've become convinced, however, that outbound protection is > >> meaningless. Once one of the nasties gets into your computer, it can > >> essentially do whatever it wants, including circumventing the > >> firewall. So the extra protection provided by a firewall that > >> monitors outbound traffic is more apparent than real. > > > > Actually the Windows XP firewall does monitor some outbound traffic. > > As Windows XP tells me it has blocked some outbound communication and > > allows me to select allow or block. > > That's news to me. Me too. I've never seen such a message. Bill, the next time you see one, please note the exact verbatim text of the message and post it here. -- Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003 Please Reply to the Newsgroup
From: BillW50 on 26 Sep 2009 11:21 In news:kt7sb51rhma8knufvhpma2e2ffq8e81evo(a)4ax.com, Ken Blake, MVP typed on Sat, 26 Sep 2009 07:07:12 -0700: > On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 23:56:22 -0400, "Daave" <daave(a)example.com> wrote: > >> BillW50 wrote: >>> In news:em6qb5tij3c8d8o8ttnl6qjbglqs69grej(a)4ax.com, >>> Ken Blake, MVP typed on Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:38:46 -0700: >>> [...] >>>> I used to recommend third-party firewalls over the Windows one >>>> because they were two-way, and the Windows firewall only monitored >>>> incoming traffic. >>>> >>>> I've become convinced, however, that outbound protection is >>>> meaningless. Once one of the nasties gets into your computer, it >>>> can essentially do whatever it wants, including circumventing the >>>> firewall. So the extra protection provided by a firewall that >>>> monitors outbound traffic is more apparent than real. >>> >>> Actually the Windows XP firewall does monitor some outbound traffic. >>> As Windows XP tells me it has blocked some outbound communication >>> and allows me to select allow or block. >> >> That's news to me. > > Me too. I've never seen such a message. Bill, the next time you see > one, please note the exact verbatim text of the message and post it > here. I could do better than that. Here is a snapshot of it in action. http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8030/windowsfirewallhasblock.gif If you open up your Windows Firewall Settings and open the Exceptions tab. The ones with the checkmarks are the ones you selected to unblock at some moment in the past. I just deleted Dimension 4 from the list and opened it up. And then I get the offer to block and unblock once again. <vbg> -- Bill Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2
From: Daave on 26 Sep 2009 12:26 BillW50 wrote: > In news:kt7sb51rhma8knufvhpma2e2ffq8e81evo(a)4ax.com, > Ken Blake, MVP typed on Sat, 26 Sep 2009 07:07:12 -0700: >> On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 23:56:22 -0400, "Daave" <daave(a)example.com> >> wrote: >>> BillW50 wrote: >>>> In news:em6qb5tij3c8d8o8ttnl6qjbglqs69grej(a)4ax.com, >>>> Ken Blake, MVP typed on Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:38:46 -0700: >>>> [...] >>>>> I used to recommend third-party firewalls over the Windows one >>>>> because they were two-way, and the Windows firewall only monitored >>>>> incoming traffic. >>>>> >>>>> I've become convinced, however, that outbound protection is >>>>> meaningless. Once one of the nasties gets into your computer, it >>>>> can essentially do whatever it wants, including circumventing the >>>>> firewall. So the extra protection provided by a firewall that >>>>> monitors outbound traffic is more apparent than real. >>>> >>>> Actually the Windows XP firewall does monitor some outbound >>>> traffic. As Windows XP tells me it has blocked some outbound >>>> communication and allows me to select allow or block. >>> >>> That's news to me. >> >> Me too. I've never seen such a message. Bill, the next time you see >> one, please note the exact verbatim text of the message and post it >> here. > > I could do better than that. Here is a snapshot of it in action. > > http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8030/windowsfirewallhasblock.gif > > If you open up your Windows Firewall Settings and open the Exceptions > tab. The ones with the checkmarks are the ones you selected to unblock > at some moment in the past. I just deleted Dimension 4 from the list > and opened it up. And then I get the offer to block and unblock once > again. <vbg> According to the Windows Firewall message, it "has blocked this program from *accepting* [emphasis mine] connections." That would mean it is an example of the firewall blocking *incoming* traffic. In your post, you stated that the firewall "has blocked some outbound communication and allows me to select allow or block." If you can post a similar message that states something along the lines of "has blocked this program from sending data to the Internet," I would be interested to see that because it's something that Windows Firewall is *not* supposed to be capable of doing (to the best of my knowledge).
From: Ken Blake, MVP on 26 Sep 2009 12:56 On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:21:55 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50(a)aol.kom> wrote: > In news:kt7sb51rhma8knufvhpma2e2ffq8e81evo(a)4ax.com, > Ken Blake, MVP typed on Sat, 26 Sep 2009 07:07:12 -0700: > > On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 23:56:22 -0400, "Daave" <daave(a)example.com> wrote: > > > >> BillW50 wrote: > >>> In news:em6qb5tij3c8d8o8ttnl6qjbglqs69grej(a)4ax.com, > >>> Ken Blake, MVP typed on Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:38:46 -0700: > >>> [...] > >>>> I used to recommend third-party firewalls over the Windows one > >>>> because they were two-way, and the Windows firewall only monitored > >>>> incoming traffic. > >>>> > >>>> I've become convinced, however, that outbound protection is > >>>> meaningless. Once one of the nasties gets into your computer, it > >>>> can essentially do whatever it wants, including circumventing the > >>>> firewall. So the extra protection provided by a firewall that > >>>> monitors outbound traffic is more apparent than real. > >>> > >>> Actually the Windows XP firewall does monitor some outbound traffic. > >>> As Windows XP tells me it has blocked some outbound communication > >>> and allows me to select allow or block. > >> > >> That's news to me. > > > > Me too. I've never seen such a message. Bill, the next time you see > > one, please note the exact verbatim text of the message and post it > > here. > > I could do better than that. Here is a snapshot of it in action. > > http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8030/windowsfirewallhasblock.gif Please note the message on that screen. It says "Windows firewall has blocked this program from accepting connections from the internet or a network." The Word "accepting" is clearly referring to incoming traffic, not outbound. -- Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003 Please Reply to the Newsgroup
From: BillW50 on 26 Sep 2009 13:14 In news:fohsb5dtod1juabgkd1hhseifk155hrqpi(a)4ax.com, Ken Blake, MVP typed on Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:56:02 -0700: > On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:21:55 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50(a)aol.kom> wrote: > >> In news:kt7sb51rhma8knufvhpma2e2ffq8e81evo(a)4ax.com, >> Ken Blake, MVP typed on Sat, 26 Sep 2009 07:07:12 -0700: >>> On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 23:56:22 -0400, "Daave" <daave(a)example.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> BillW50 wrote: >>>>> In news:em6qb5tij3c8d8o8ttnl6qjbglqs69grej(a)4ax.com, >>>>> Ken Blake, MVP typed on Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:38:46 -0700: >>>>> [...] >>>>>> I used to recommend third-party firewalls over the Windows one >>>>>> because they were two-way, and the Windows firewall only >>>>>> monitored incoming traffic. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've become convinced, however, that outbound protection is >>>>>> meaningless. Once one of the nasties gets into your computer, it >>>>>> can essentially do whatever it wants, including circumventing the >>>>>> firewall. So the extra protection provided by a firewall that >>>>>> monitors outbound traffic is more apparent than real. >>>>> >>>>> Actually the Windows XP firewall does monitor some outbound >>>>> traffic. As Windows XP tells me it has blocked some outbound >>>>> communication and allows me to select allow or block. >>>> >>>> That's news to me. >>> >>> Me too. I've never seen such a message. Bill, the next time you see >>> one, please note the exact verbatim text of the message and post it >>> here. >> >> I could do better than that. Here is a snapshot of it in action. >> >> http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8030/windowsfirewallhasblock.gif > > > Please note the message on that screen. It says "Windows firewall has > blocked this program from accepting connections from the internet or a > network." The Word "accepting" is clearly referring to incoming > traffic, not outbound. Yes sorry, I remembered incorrectly. But the effect is the same. Let's say Virus.exe wants to phone home. So it sends out a request to communicate with the server. The server response with okay I am ready. But Windows Firewall blocks the message from getting to Virus.exe. So nothing happens. So all of the programs that are being blocked, has the effect of never seeing being connected to the Internet. As they can't communicate with anybody. So they can't do anything. While unblocked programs like browsers, email, etc. has free access to the Internet. -- Bill Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2
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