NTSC -> PAL conversion
in [UK Linux]
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From: Tony Houghton on 21 Nov 2009 09:33 In <he8ogl$5ec$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Geoff Clements <bitbucket(a)electron.me.uk> wrote: > Tony Houghton wrote: > >> The fundamental difference between NTSC and PAL DVD is that the former >> is 720x480 @ 30fps and the latter is 720x576 @ 50fps. > > NTSC plays at 29.97 *frames* per second and PAL plays at 50 *fields* per > second which is 25 *frames* per second. Yes, sorry, I meant to say 30/60fps and 25/50fps where the first figure is frames and the second figure is fields. And I forgot about the 1000/1001 factor. > This means that to do a NTSC to PAL conversion with freely available > software you have to drop nearly 5 frames a second. This is pretty much > pathological for a good video but it can be done. [Snip] > Doing an inverse telecine will give you 24fps which is not what the OP > wants. In fact I'd stay away from doing _any_ telecine work with free > software. Isn't it quite easy to do inverse telecine on a DVD though because there are flags in the data stream to tell you which frame each field comes from? If he can't view it as NTSC and a PAL conversion is essential, I still think this is the best way provided the source was 24fps progressive and it isn't vital for the sound to be reproduced at the correct speed and pitch. I've quite often watched 24fps AVIs sped up to 25fps on the fly for my TV (when I bought a new one recently I accidentally got one without "24p") and it works quite well. The change in the sound is subjectively no more noticeable to me than the slight judder you get from watching 24fps films at 60fps NTSC. -- TH * http://www.realh.co.uk
From: Martin Gregorie on 21 Nov 2009 10:36 On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:20:24 +0000, Paul Martin wrote: > In article <he78lt$lj$1(a)localhost.localdomain>, > Martin Gregorie wrote: >> I asked because I'm interested in getting a copy of "The Sunship Game" >> on DVD when its released later this year. There is a crappy, YouTube >> quality transcript circulating, but as it was originally a >> professionally made film in 1970 and the DVD will only be available in >> NTSC, I was wondering if I'd be wasting $30 + P&P if I ordered a copy. > > You want a multiregion (region-free) DVD player, connected using RGB > SCART to a TV capable of handling 30Hz pictures (most, if not all, those > sold in the last 20 years). > > The only difference between UK and US DVDs is the region coding (to > prevent UK viewers looking at US DVDs, or Australians looking at UK > DVDs), the frame rate (24 or 30fps for US, 25fps for UK) and the > resolution (720x480 for US, 720x576 for UK). > > If you want to view it on the computer, pretty much any program that > uses libdvdcss (eg. mplayer, vlc, xine) will play it. As this is a fairly specialised DVD but has a potential global audience (its about the 1970 US open gliding champs) I'm hopeful that it will have all-region coding. I've asked one of the distributors but not heard back yet. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org |
From: Vince Coen on 23 Nov 2009 10:53 Hello Frank! 20 Nov 09 22:08, Frank Peelo wrote to All: FP> I've got one. I got given a DVD from my brother in America for my FP> birthday. It almost sort of played, but was in black & white. >> I think you'll need to increase >> your understanding of the formats before you can manage it, because >> I'm not aware of a simple "NTSC to PAL wizard", you need to build up >> your own filter chain. Don't forget there are 2 different NTSC formats, ie, 4.43 and 3.58 (std US form), I am going by memory for the (3.58) one. When I was shopping for a Sony Betamax and a Umatic VTR I had to be very specific for the beta to have both american formats as well as most Pal and Secam formats as I was prodcing tapes to a wide region of the globe. The 4.43 version of NTSC in for consumption outside of the US but both are very inferier to the PAL standard due to a range of factors including lines which is a lot less than the PAL system. Very noticable on colour programming. Regardless many TV's including my old Sony 28" CRT and v.heavy will playback all NTSC as well as PAL and Secam etc however some TV's will only playback B&W as they are NOT supporting the differing versions. Hope it helps, Vince
From: FP on 24 Nov 2009 09:04 On 23/11/2009 15:53, Vince Coen wrote: > Hello Frank! > > 20 Nov 09 22:08, Frank Peelo wrote to All: > > FP> I've got one. I got given a DVD from my brother in America for my > FP> birthday. It almost sort of played, but was in black & white. That was in response to Tony Houghton's saying thet DVD players and TVs that can't do both NTSC and PAL are quite rare. They are rare. But if you have one it's still a nuisance. Tony Houghton wrote: > >> I think you'll need to increase > >> your understanding of the formats before you can manage it, because > >> I'm not aware of a simple "NTSC to PAL wizard", you need to build up > >> your own filter chain. > > Don't forget there are 2 different NTSC formats, ie, 4.43 and 3.58 (std US > form), I am going by memory for the (3.58) one. When I was shopping for a > Sony Betamax and a Umatic VTR I had to be very specific for the beta to have > both american formats as well as most Pal and Secam formats as I was prodcing > tapes to a wide region of the globe. The 4.43 version of NTSC in for > consumption outside of the US but both are very inferier to the PAL standard > due to a range of factors including lines which is a lot less > than the PAL system. Very noticable on colour programming. > > Regardless many TV's including my old Sony 28" CRT and v.heavy will playback > all NTSC as well as PAL and Secam etc however some TV's will only playback B&W > as they are NOT supporting the differing versions. Yup, that was my experience. I guess the line scan rates for PAL and NTSC are close enough that the telly can display NTSC frames. But the DVD player should encode the colour using PAL, and it just didn't. Frank
From: Robert Billing on 24 Nov 2009 12:44 As the bottle floated ashore we opened it and found the message that FP had written: > On 23/11/2009 15:53, Vince Coen wrote: >> Hello Frank! >> >> 20 Nov 09 22:08, Frank Peelo wrote to All: >> >> FP> I've got one. I got given a DVD from my brother in America for my >> FP> birthday. It almost sort of played, but was in black & white. > > That was in response to Tony Houghton's saying thet DVD players and TVs > that can't do both NTSC and PAL are quite rare. They are rare. But if > you have one it's still a nuisance. I really think I ought to come in here. After a decade and a half in broadcasting and a couple of RTS awards I think I'm entitled to say, "It's a bit more complicated than that." 1) PAL and NTSC are standards for colour encoding. They are commonly associated with 625/50 and 525/60 scan standards, but don't have to be. The BBC made colour test transmissions in 405/50 NTSC in the late 50s and early 60s. 2) Converting the geometry is quite easy. You just slap on some decent filters. A 32-point Bessel will do this for you. 3) It's the time domain that plays hob with what you want. Imagine a car being driven on the far side of the fence, and the camera panning to follow it. There is a number painted on the side of the car. The speed is such that on every frame the number is exactly behind an upright of the fence. Now convert that to 625/50. On every sixth frame in the output the number should be clearly visible. But that data is not available in the standards converter's input. In short all standards conversion is an approximation, adjusting the display will always giver better results. When display meant hot glass and Miller integrators this was a real problem. It isn't any longer. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, author, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover. "It burned me from within. It quickened; I was with book as a woman is with child." Quality e-books for portable readers: http://www.alex-library.com
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