Netscreen ScreenOS
in [Firewalls]
|
Prev: router contains a built-in switch versus router without a built-in switch
Next: port forwarding/ opening port
From: Triffid on 6 Oct 2005 00:28 Leythos wrote: > In article <rm01f.7753$2F2.776078(a)news20.bellglobal.com>, > triffid(a)nebula.net says... > >>However, if the vendor is no longer willing to sell support, presumably >>they do not expect the product to generate further revenue and have >>ceased developing firmware updates - so why not make the last version >>freely available? > > > Nope, should not be free. That would kind of make the point for paying > for updates and other software mute. Windows 2000 is still a good OS, > and Office 2000 is still viable, etc.... Yeah, my employer pays big bucks for NT4 security patches - and will do so until it's cheaper to retire or redevelop the application. Some vendors support obsolete product indefinitely if the customer is willing to pay. > I run a firewall that is 5 years old, not supported, and has not had > updates in 2 years, but it's still very strong, has no leaks, and cost > me plenty, I would never consider GIVING the firmware away to anyone. Nor would I consider giving away NT4 patches. How would you respond if your vendor had developed a firmware update with functionality and/or fixes you needed, but refused to sell it to you? >>>So, he may not have any other option. >> >>Indeed. Should using software you can no longer obtain a license for be >>considered piracy? > > > You could consider all software obsolete the day it hits the store, as > they are already working on the next release, so why not just pirate > everything - in case you miss the sarcasm, taking older > software/firmware not freely released to PD is still piracy. I have a problem with vendors who think they can force me to buy new hardware by refusing to sell available firmware updates for existing hardware. Blackmail vs piracy? Triffid
From: Triffid on 6 Oct 2005 22:31 Leythos wrote: > In article <3K11f.2968$R4.454159(a)news20.bellglobal.com>, > triffid(a)nebula.net says... > >> >>Leythos wrote: >> >> >>>In article <rm01f.7753$2F2.776078(a)news20.bellglobal.com>, >>>triffid(a)nebula.net says... >>> >>> >>>>However, if the vendor is no longer willing to sell support, presumably >>>>they do not expect the product to generate further revenue and have >>>>ceased developing firmware updates - so why not make the last version >>>>freely available? >>> >>> >>>Nope, should not be free. That would kind of make the point for paying >>>for updates and other software mute. Windows 2000 is still a good OS, >>>and Office 2000 is still viable, etc.... >> >>Yeah, my employer pays big bucks for NT4 security patches - and will do >>so until it's cheaper to retire or redevelop the application. Some >>vendors support obsolete product indefinitely if the customer is willing >>to pay. >> >> >>>I run a firewall that is 5 years old, not supported, and has not had >>>updates in 2 years, but it's still very strong, has no leaks, and cost >>>me plenty, I would never consider GIVING the firmware away to anyone. >> >>Nor would I consider giving away NT4 patches. >> >>How would you respond if your vendor had developed a firmware update >>with functionality and/or fixes you needed, but refused to sell it to you? > > > Well, if it took me years to determine that I needed it, after what > would be considered a normal support period, I would be upset, but I > would also understand and have already resigned myself to the fact that > I'm running unsupported/obsolete hardware that is not longer available - > and that it's time to purchase new software/hardware that is fully > supported. > > I've had this happen with other firewall products - purchase one, have > NO problems - new technology comes out years later, find that the old > firewall has issues with the new method, no updates since the product is > too old, but the newer products have updates (if you have a > subscription) to resolve it.... Does that mean I'm entitled to purchase > a new firewall on ebay from someone that is selling it for $50 and then > beg people on the Net for a free firmware update and key? Nope. > > >>>>>So, he may not have any other option. >>>> >>>>Indeed. Should using software you can no longer obtain a license for be >>>>considered piracy? >>> >>> >>>You could consider all software obsolete the day it hits the store, as >>>they are already working on the next release, so why not just pirate >>>everything - in case you miss the sarcasm, taking older >>>software/firmware not freely released to PD is still piracy. >> >>I have a problem with vendors who think they can force me to buy new >>hardware by refusing to sell available firmware updates for existing >>hardware. Blackmail vs piracy? > > > So, you are advocating that theft is justifiable when it suites your > needs? Have you ever been told - two wrongs don't make a right? I said I have a problem with vendors who won't sell me an available update, hoping I will spend more for the current product. I did not say I would solve that problem by obtaining the update illicitly. I'd be more likely to take my business elsewhere. My intent was to elicit debate. You assumed I was taking a position. > Consider the firewall vendors - they provide free updates for XX months, > some less, some more, after that you have to pay for them. They pay > their developers for making the updates, they pay their sales people to > keep selling, they pay for security audits, etc... So, along comes some > chap that doesn't want to pay for a support contract and is no longer > entitled to free updates - the chap gets a Friend or some lamer on the > net to provide him with the firmware update - money lost to the company, > and if the firmware has problems he's going to expect that they fix that > too..... Agreed, but in this case the vendor is not offering the update, via a support contract or otherwise, at any price. I fail to see a downside to their making it freely available on an as-is (unsupported) basis, indeed doing so might enhance their reputation somewhat and reduce the probability of complaints from users of illicit (potentially compromised) firmware. Triffid
From: Ben on 7 Oct 2005 00:09 On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 22:14:26 -0400, "Somebody." <somebody.(a)spamout.russdoucet.com> wrote: > >"Ben" <nonspecified(a)null.null> wrote in message >news:0ul7k11coc6beqo63do005b0abkk69qr89(a)4ax.com... >> On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 06:20:45 -0700, Ben <nonspecified(a)null.null> >> wrote: >> >>>On 3 Oct 2005 09:49:23 -0700, "fr35lolo" <ljuin(a)gerpi.fr> wrote: >>> >>>>I got ns5xp.4.0.2r6 on a cd. >>>>Does it suit you ? >>>> >>> >>>Does it have the security flaw described? >> >> >> Never mind - I got up too early and just saw NetScreen and thought you >> were replying to my post. >> >> I guess this is more of a forum for software pirates than people >> interested in security. > >Before you jump down the guys' throat, you can't buy support for a 5XP as >far as I'm aware, you're just out of luck. > Really? We have a couple where I work and we have support for them. I just go their website and d/l the latest ScreenOS whenever I want to. >So, he may not have any other option. Except that he does. > >-Russ. >
From: Ben on 7 Oct 2005 00:10 On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:55:19 -0400, Triffid <triffid(a)nebula.net> wrote: > >> So, he may not have any other option. > >Indeed. Should using software you can no longer obtain a license for be >considered piracy? I would say no, but you can get maintenance for it.
From: Somebody. on 7 Oct 2005 07:46
"Ben" <nonspecified(a)null.null> wrote in message news:h4tbk15o67f436htabm4ldnb7rhti1884m(a)4ax.com... > On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 22:14:26 -0400, "Somebody." > <somebody.(a)spamout.russdoucet.com> wrote: > >> >>"Ben" <nonspecified(a)null.null> wrote in message >>news:0ul7k11coc6beqo63do005b0abkk69qr89(a)4ax.com... >>> On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 06:20:45 -0700, Ben <nonspecified(a)null.null> >>> wrote: >>> >>>>On 3 Oct 2005 09:49:23 -0700, "fr35lolo" <ljuin(a)gerpi.fr> wrote: >>>> >>>>>I got ns5xp.4.0.2r6 on a cd. >>>>>Does it suit you ? >>>>> >>>> >>>>Does it have the security flaw described? >>> >>> >>> Never mind - I got up too early and just saw NetScreen and thought you >>> were replying to my post. >>> >>> I guess this is more of a forum for software pirates than people >>> interested in security. >> >>Before you jump down the guys' throat, you can't buy support for a 5XP as >>far as I'm aware, you're just out of luck. >> > > Really? We have a couple where I work and we have support for them. > > I just go their website and d/l the latest ScreenOS whenever I want > to. > >>So, he may not have any other option. > > Except that he does. > >> >>-Russ. I wasn't aware that you could still get support for the 5XP. If so, then of course that's the correct thing to do and pirating firmware is not. Curious: how much do you pay for your support on a box that is no longer having new firmware developed for it? We probably could re-start this disussion using some other out-of-date product like an NS10, NS100, NS1000, I'm pretty sure you can't buy support for those units any more. -Russ. |