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From: Jim Maher on 5 Apr 2010 13:39
As has been pointed out, NO you do NOT need to learn C.

I believe Ruby is a better place to start programming. But learning to
program is not "easy", and certainly not quick. Worth it, but requires
much work.

Matt started asking the kind of questions you need to answer before you
start any program. Robert pointed out that - maybe - you don't need a
custom program to do what you want.

If you want to learn to program, good for you! Use BOTH the book you
have and Pine's. Read them like novels, just to get an orientation to
programming and Ruby. Then decide if you want to proceed with learning
to program. If so, the problem you state is a fine place to start.

If you just want to solve the problem, I would suggest that you do it in
Excel. In fact, you should consider doing it in Excel, even if you WILL
write the program. By doing it in Excel first, you'll start to answer
the kind of questions Matt raised.

Have fun!

Jim Maher



Hilary Bailey wrote:
> Matthew K. Williams wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Apr 2010, Hilary Bailey wrote:
>>
>>>> Perhaps this book is more appropriate for an absolute beginner?
>>>>
>>>> http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram
>>>>
>>>> Jesus.
>>>
>>> Jesus, the book is just as similar to Beginning Ruby From Novice to
>>> Professional. Do i have to learn C and or C++ before even thinking of
>>> using Ruby or attempting to write a software?
>>>
>>
>> No, you don't need to learn C. I just read the first couple of chapters
>> of the Pine book, and didn't see anything relating to C, but your
>> mileage
>> may vary.
>>
>> Taking a step back, what sort of program are you wishing to write? What
>> sort of problem are you hoping to solve?
>>
>> Matt
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> It is a program that will evaluate the progress of a school district.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

From: Matthew K. Williams on 5 Apr 2010 13:48
On Tue, 6 Apr 2010, Hilary Bailey wrote:

> Richard Conroy wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Hilary Bailey
>> <my77elephants(a)gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>> Perhaps this book is more appropriate for an absolute beginner?
>>>>
>>>> http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram
>>>>
>>>> Jesus.
>>>
>>> Jesus, the book is just as similar to Beginning Ruby From Novice to
>>> Professional. Do i have to learn C and or C++ before even thinking of
>>> using Ruby or attempting to write a software?
>>>
>>>
>> Are we talking about the same book? I am trying to recall any mention of
>> C or C++ in Learn to Program whatsoever, unless it was placing it in
>> context.
>>
>> You might want to look out for Shoes, or the Hackety Hack Ruby
>> extensions.
>> They use Ruby as a baseline. but simplify it further specifically for
>> helping
>> beginners & kids to learn programming.
>
> On pgs 296 and 297. There is not clarity as how to use the million of
> concepts. Someone recommended to abandon Ruby and go directly to Ruby on
> Rails, as it offers more flexibility while learning Ruby and also Rails.

I'm confused -- can you point to an url in the online Learn to Program
book? (http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram) Or is pp 296-297 in the other book?

Also, what do you mean as there being no clarity as how to use the million
of concepts? The Learn To Program book has, as I recall, a lot of little
exercises to help you with applying the information in each chapter.

Or is it more an issue of not knowing where/how to start and what to use
where/when?

Matt

From: William Rutiser on 5 Apr 2010 16:32
Matthew K. Williams wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Apr 2010, Hilary Bailey wrote:
>
>> Richard Conroy wrote:
>>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Hilary Bailey
>>> <my77elephants(a)gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Perhaps this book is more appropriate for an absolute beginner?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram
>>>>>
>>>>> Jesus.
>>>>
>>>> Jesus, the book is just as similar to Beginning Ruby From Novice to
>>>> Professional. Do i have to learn C and or C++ before even thinking of
>>>> using Ruby or attempting to write a software?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Are we talking about the same book? I am trying to recall any
>>> mention of
>>> C or C++ in Learn to Program whatsoever, unless it was placing it in
>>> context.
>>>
>>> You might want to look out for Shoes, or the Hackety Hack Ruby
>>> extensions.
>>> They use Ruby as a baseline. but simplify it further specifically for
>>> helping
>>> beginners & kids to learn programming.
>>
>> On pgs 296 and 297. There is not clarity as how to use the million of
>> concepts. Someone recommended to abandon Ruby and go directly to Ruby on
>> Rails, as it offers more flexibility while learning Ruby and also Rails.
>
> I'm confused -- can you point to an url in the online Learn to Program
> book? (http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram) Or is pp 296-297 in the other
> book?
>
> Also, what do you mean as there being no clarity as how to use the
> million of concepts? The Learn To Program book has, as I recall, a
> lot of little exercises to help you with applying the information in
> each chapter.
>
> Or is it more an issue of not knowing where/how to start and what to
> use where/when?
>
> Matt
>
Chris Pine's book only has 230 pages. The first edition had 149 pages.

Learn to Program
Chris Pine
Pragmatic Bookshelf
ISBN 0-9766940-4-2
http://www.pragprog.com/titles/ltp2/learn-to-program-2nd-edition

Bill


From: Hilary Bailey on 5 Apr 2010 17:15
William Rutiser wrote:
> Matthew K. Williams wrote:
>>>>>> Jesus.
>>>>
>> I'm confused -- can you point to an url in the online Learn to Program
>>
>> Matt
>>
> Chris Pine's book only has 230 pages. The first edition had 149 pages.
>
> Learn to Program
> Chris Pine
> Pragmatic Bookshelf
> ISBN 0-9766940-4-2
> http://www.pragprog.com/titles/ltp2/learn-to-program-2nd-edition
>
> Bill
You are right. They are two different books. The one I am reading is
Beginning Ruby From Novice to Professional. I will take your advice and
finish the book (which I am half-way through), if there are any more
problems then look at your recommendations
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

From: Josh Cheek on 5 Apr 2010 17:46
[Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Hilary Bailey <my77elephants(a)gmail.com>wrote:

> I will like to know how to use programming languages to create a
> computer software. I was advised to start with Ruby. Half-way through
> 'Beginning Ruby From Novice to Professional', it refers to C and/or C++
> as fundamentals. HELP. What is a practical approach to learning how to
> create a computer software from scratch. I am in the the field of
> secondary education with some knowledge of Excel, Words and SPSS.
>
> Thanking you in advance for your response
>

You should think about whether you're wanting to learn enough programming to
solve some problems, or really get deep into it, understanding the internals
and implementation. If it's the former, then I wouldn't touch a low level
language. If the latter, then learning C would be good for your
understanding of computer science, and even Assembly from there would really
ground some of the things you do, all the way down to the hardware.

But it sounds like you're wanting to program for pragmatic reasons, so I'd
strongly suggest you don't go near C, to do anything nontrivial in C
requires a huge amount of time and knowledge, and C gets out of hand
quickly. Stick with Ruby.

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Hilary Bailey <my77elephants(a)gmail.com>wrote:

>
> On pgs 296 and 297. There is not clarity as how to use the million of
> concepts. Someone recommended to abandon Ruby and go directly to Ruby on
> Rails, as it offers more flexibility while learning Ruby and also Rails.
>
>
If you're wanting to make a simple web app, then I'd suggest starting with
Sinatra, it is much easier to start with. If what you want to do is more
complex, then Rails is the way to go, it just takes a while to get the hang
of rails (or did for me, at least), Rails is almost a language in itself.
For Sinatra, I really enjoyed the peepcode screencast
https://peepcode.com/products/sinatra

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Aldric Giacomoni <aldric(a)trevoke.net>wrote:

> Hilary Bailey wrote:
> > What is a practical approach to learning how to
> > create a computer software from scratch.
>
> Write programs yourself. A good place to start is
> http://projecteuler.net/ especially because it may force you to do
> research online about whatever algorithms it may be talking about.
> Online research is important.
>

That's where I started ^_^ I also started with C, but recommend against it,
I think it is a miserable language that saps all the joy of programming. I
picked up Ruby, because C wasn't able to handle numbers large enough to
solve Project Euler problems, very glad I did.

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