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From: Daddy on 13 Apr 2010 18:37
Daddy wrote:
> I had to give myself a basic education on alternating current, output
> waveforms and active PFC power supplies just to be able to ask this
> question.
>
> It all started because I heard that new Dell PCs need a new kind of UPS
> (uninterruptible power supply.)
>
> It's a fact: To comply with regulations, Dell now includes something
> called an active-PFC power supply with their PCs. I also understand that
> users and power companies benefit from PFC, as does the environment.
>
> The problem is, active PFC power supplies supposedly need current with a
> pure sine wave output - and a Dell technical rep told me that all new
> Dell computers need this - but virtually all UPSes for home use have a
> stepped approximation of a sine wave.
>
> Has anybody priced a UPS with pure sine wave output? Those buggers are
> expensive!
>
> On the other hand, according to APC: Starting in mid-2008, all APC
> Back-UPS (home and small office) products were revised to better handle
> load requirements for PFC devices...allowing the majority of Back-UPS
> being manufactured now to handle most (not all) PFC loads within their
> wattage range much better than older units. Their output is still
> step-approximated, however, and APC still finds the occasional PFC
> device that they have trouble with.
>
> Here's where I throw up my hands. Do I really need to pay an
> arm-and-a-leg for a pure sine UPS, or is most any properly sized UPS
> 'good enough'?
>
> Daddy

I know you're all sitting on pins and needles over this...

You may recall that I 'tested' my UPS to see if it could power my
system, and the result of the test was that my system completely lost
power. I have now discovered the reason why my system lost power: I am a
shlemiel.

(That's a 'dolt' for those unfamiliar with the lingo.)

I performed the test by pressing the Off button on my UPS...which
powered off the UPS. Duh! The correct thing to do was to pull the plug
(of the UPS) out of the wall socket.

Tonight I pulled the plug...and my system kept on working, without
interruption. So there. No fancy, expensive, sine wave UPS for me.

My UPS *is* somewhat under-powered for my system, by almost any
calculation. I'll just wait for a good sale.

Daddy
From: WSZsr on 13 Apr 2010 18:45
Daddy,

You are a shlemiel.

:)

"Daddy" <daddy(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:hq2rni$oc3$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> Daddy wrote:
>> I had to give myself a basic education on alternating current, output
>> waveforms and active PFC power supplies just to be able to ask this
>> question.
>>
>> It all started because I heard that new Dell PCs need a new kind of UPS
>> (uninterruptible power supply.)
>>
>> It's a fact: To comply with regulations, Dell now includes something
>> called an active-PFC power supply with their PCs. I also understand that
>> users and power companies benefit from PFC, as does the environment.
>>
>> The problem is, active PFC power supplies supposedly need current with a
>> pure sine wave output - and a Dell technical rep told me that all new
>> Dell computers need this - but virtually all UPSes for home use have a
>> stepped approximation of a sine wave.
>>
>> Has anybody priced a UPS with pure sine wave output? Those buggers are
>> expensive!
>>
>> On the other hand, according to APC: Starting in mid-2008, all APC
>> Back-UPS (home and small office) products were revised to better handle
>> load requirements for PFC devices...allowing the majority of Back-UPS
>> being manufactured now to handle most (not all) PFC loads within their
>> wattage range much better than older units. Their output is still
>> step-approximated, however, and APC still finds the occasional PFC device
>> that they have trouble with.
>>
>> Here's where I throw up my hands. Do I really need to pay an
>> arm-and-a-leg for a pure sine UPS, or is most any properly sized UPS
>> 'good enough'?
>>
>> Daddy
>
> I know you're all sitting on pins and needles over this...
>
> You may recall that I 'tested' my UPS to see if it could power my system,
> and the result of the test was that my system completely lost power. I
> have now discovered the reason why my system lost power: I am a shlemiel.
>
> (That's a 'dolt' for those unfamiliar with the lingo.)
>
> I performed the test by pressing the Off button on my UPS...which powered
> off the UPS. Duh! The correct thing to do was to pull the plug (of the
> UPS) out of the wall socket.
>
> Tonight I pulled the plug...and my system kept on working, without
> interruption. So there. No fancy, expensive, sine wave UPS for me.
>
> My UPS *is* somewhat under-powered for my system, by almost any
> calculation. I'll just wait for a good sale.
>
> Daddy

From: Tom Lake on 14 Apr 2010 08:18

"WSZsr" <nospam(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hq2s5j$r0r$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> Daddy,
>
> You are a shlemiel.
>
> :)

I though he was a schlimazel!

Tom Lake

--
A schlemiel spills the soup, a schlimazel is the one the soup spills on.

From: Ben Myers on 14 Apr 2010 09:07
On 4/13/2010 6:37 PM, Daddy wrote:
> Daddy wrote:
>> I had to give myself a basic education on alternating current, output
>> waveforms and active PFC power supplies just to be able to ask this
>> question.
>>
>> It all started because I heard that new Dell PCs need a new kind of
>> UPS (uninterruptible power supply.)
>>
>> It's a fact: To comply with regulations, Dell now includes something
>> called an active-PFC power supply with their PCs. I also understand
>> that users and power companies benefit from PFC, as does the environment.
>>
>> The problem is, active PFC power supplies supposedly need current with
>> a pure sine wave output - and a Dell technical rep told me that all
>> new Dell computers need this - but virtually all UPSes for home use
>> have a stepped approximation of a sine wave.
>>
>> Has anybody priced a UPS with pure sine wave output? Those buggers are
>> expensive!
>>
>> On the other hand, according to APC: Starting in mid-2008, all APC
>> Back-UPS (home and small office) products were revised to better
>> handle load requirements for PFC devices...allowing the majority of
>> Back-UPS being manufactured now to handle most (not all) PFC loads
>> within their wattage range much better than older units. Their output
>> is still step-approximated, however, and APC still finds the
>> occasional PFC device that they have trouble with.
>>
>> Here's where I throw up my hands. Do I really need to pay an
>> arm-and-a-leg for a pure sine UPS, or is most any properly sized UPS
>> 'good enough'?
>>
>> Daddy
>
> I know you're all sitting on pins and needles over this...
>
> You may recall that I 'tested' my UPS to see if it could power my
> system, and the result of the test was that my system completely lost
> power. I have now discovered the reason why my system lost power: I am a
> shlemiel.
>
> (That's a 'dolt' for those unfamiliar with the lingo.)
>
> I performed the test by pressing the Off button on my UPS...which
> powered off the UPS. Duh! The correct thing to do was to pull the plug
> (of the UPS) out of the wall socket.
>
> Tonight I pulled the plug...and my system kept on working, without
> interruption. So there. No fancy, expensive, sine wave UPS for me.
>
> My UPS *is* somewhat under-powered for my system, by almost any
> calculation. I'll just wait for a good sale.
>
> Daddy

FWIW, Staples had a good solid decently rated APC UPS on sale a few
weeks ago, and my son bought one to overcome the old and substandard
electrical wiring where he lives. CDW had APCs on sale a few weeks ago,
and I bought an APC Back-UPS 1250 for a little over 100 bucks. Made my
life easier, because our local National Grid electric company has very
frequent electrical hiccups, and my old UPS was worn out. I no longer
suffer from spontaneous reboots. Of my computer. My brain still
reboots regularly.

Keep checking the sales, schlep on over to a sale, and buy a
good-quality name brand UPS.

How on earth a company like Dell can tell everyone that a UPS must
provide A/C with a pure sine wave is beyond me. Or, to put it more
succinctly, it is a large load of bullshit... Ben Myers
From: Daddy on 14 Apr 2010 09:49
Ben Myers wrote:
> On 4/13/2010 6:37 PM, Daddy wrote:
>> Daddy wrote:
>>> I had to give myself a basic education on alternating current, output
>>> waveforms and active PFC power supplies just to be able to ask this
>>> question.
>>>
>>> It all started because I heard that new Dell PCs need a new kind of
>>> UPS (uninterruptible power supply.)
>>>
>>> It's a fact: To comply with regulations, Dell now includes something
>>> called an active-PFC power supply with their PCs. I also understand
>>> that users and power companies benefit from PFC, as does the
>>> environment.
>>>
>>> The problem is, active PFC power supplies supposedly need current with
>>> a pure sine wave output - and a Dell technical rep told me that all
>>> new Dell computers need this - but virtually all UPSes for home use
>>> have a stepped approximation of a sine wave.
>>>
>>> Has anybody priced a UPS with pure sine wave output? Those buggers are
>>> expensive!
>>>
>>> On the other hand, according to APC: Starting in mid-2008, all APC
>>> Back-UPS (home and small office) products were revised to better
>>> handle load requirements for PFC devices...allowing the majority of
>>> Back-UPS being manufactured now to handle most (not all) PFC loads
>>> within their wattage range much better than older units. Their output
>>> is still step-approximated, however, and APC still finds the
>>> occasional PFC device that they have trouble with.
>>>
>>> Here's where I throw up my hands. Do I really need to pay an
>>> arm-and-a-leg for a pure sine UPS, or is most any properly sized UPS
>>> 'good enough'?
>>>
>>> Daddy
>>
>> I know you're all sitting on pins and needles over this...
>>
>> You may recall that I 'tested' my UPS to see if it could power my
>> system, and the result of the test was that my system completely lost
>> power. I have now discovered the reason why my system lost power: I am a
>> shlemiel.
>>
>> (That's a 'dolt' for those unfamiliar with the lingo.)
>>
>> I performed the test by pressing the Off button on my UPS...which
>> powered off the UPS. Duh! The correct thing to do was to pull the plug
>> (of the UPS) out of the wall socket.
>>
>> Tonight I pulled the plug...and my system kept on working, without
>> interruption. So there. No fancy, expensive, sine wave UPS for me.
>>
>> My UPS *is* somewhat under-powered for my system, by almost any
>> calculation. I'll just wait for a good sale.
>>
>> Daddy
>
> FWIW, Staples had a good solid decently rated APC UPS on sale a few
> weeks ago, and my son bought one to overcome the old and substandard
> electrical wiring where he lives. CDW had APCs on sale a few weeks ago,
> and I bought an APC Back-UPS 1250 for a little over 100 bucks. Made my
> life easier, because our local National Grid electric company has very
> frequent electrical hiccups, and my old UPS was worn out. I no longer
> suffer from spontaneous reboots. Of my computer. My brain still
> reboots regularly.
>
> Keep checking the sales, schlep on over to a sale, and buy a
> good-quality name brand UPS.
>
> How on earth a company like Dell can tell everyone that a UPS must
> provide A/C with a pure sine wave is beyond me. Or, to put it more
> succinctly, it is a large load of bullshit... Ben Myers

I'm not wild about UPSes by APC, because every APC unit I've ever owned
- 4 in all - eventually starts to 'buzz' intermittently. Then I have to
go underneath my desk and smack the thing once or twice to get the
buzzing to stop.

When I asked APC about this, they said "Oh, that's normal." I guess that
makes my Tripp-Lite APC abnormal.

Tom: A shlemiel spills coffee on a shlimazel. That's the difference.

Daddy
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