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From: bryce on 30 Jan 2010 13:23 You do realize that Defraging and SSD can actually shorten its lifspan and cause it to fail. This is why Windows Vista/7, have special default settings when using and SSD. Kevin wrote: One of the things with the SSD you purchased is the type of NAND memory it 04-Oct-08 One of the things with the SSD you purchased is the type of NAND memory it uses. there is MLS and SLC. MLC (which is the drive you purchased) is very inexpensive to produce, and unfortunately suffers from amazingly slow write speeds. As such, you wouldn't see much improvement. SLC drives are more expensive, but will give you the performance improvements you are looking for. "Robert M. Lincoln" wrote: Previous Posts In This Thread: On Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:39 PM Robert M. Lincoln wrote: Experience with TC1100 and Solid State Drive I recently purchased a 64 GB Transcend 2.5" IDE solid state drive (TS64GSSD25-M) to replace my Hitachi Travelstar 60 GB 7200 rpm drive in my HP tablet TC1100. The drive works flawlessly. However, it is only slightly faster than the physical 7200 rpm drive. It's better, but I have to admit it is a big disappointment. The rate limiting feature seems to be the speed of the TC1100 processor (1.1 GHz). The OS (XP and then service pak 3) installed without incident. Formatting the disk only took 40 secs! I recall it took several minutes for the 60GB physical 7200 drive. I've reinstalled all my applications - no errors. The drive is seductively silent. I've performed numerous defrags (not that this needs to be done on a solid state drive), all without problems. The drive stays cooler than the 7200 rpm drive, and uses battery power a little less. However, it is nowhere near as fast as I thought it would be. Everything is a little snappier than my 7200 rpm physical drive: installations are quicker, some programs load a little faster. But it doesn't blow your mind away. Hibernation takes as much time as with my 7200 rpm drive, a big disappointment. It takes my TC1100 about 30 secs to close down in hibernation (from the tap on the Q menu), and about 25 - 30 seconds to wake up from hibernation (from pressing the on switch to the beginning screen, 10 - 15 seconds just to go through the "resuming windows" progress bar). It uses battery power less, but not dramatically so. It's also not all that light - may scale says 90 grams for the solid state drive, 115 grams for the Hitachi 60GB 7200 rpm drive. I guess I was expecting something very light weight. The solid state drive is supposed to have much greater shock resistance, but I've never dropped a laptop or experienced a broken 2.5" drive. Overall, a good product. But having used the product, I'm not sure it is worth the cost when compared to physical drives. You can get this drive from Amazon or NewEgg for $250 - $300. It's better than the physical drive, but I was expecting really short times to place the PC in hibernation mode. That is not the case. Defrags also still take a lot of time. So, some things work very fast, others show no difference. Movies are not jerky, but they weren't with my 7200 drive. I once had a 5400 rpm drive on my TC1100. I found a noticeable difference in speed between it and the 7200. Upgrading memory from 512k to 1GB RAM also made a noticeable difference. In comparison, the noticeable difference in speed using the solid state drive is not that great when compared to a 7200 rpm physical drive. It seems, for the TC1100, the rate limiting feature is the speed of the CPU. On Sunday, August 17, 2008 3:52 PM Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev] wrote: Thanks for the review... Thanks for the review... one question which might be relevant; While the shutdown into hibernation time difference does not surprise me, is there a noticable difference in the time needed to come out of hibernation? Flash memory always takes longer to write than to read, so, I would have expected that restarts would have been significantly faster. Think where you will see a time difference would be in the "ladder" that appears... if the total recovery time is not much difference, would expect that the time factor is related to other issues. On some tests I made years ago on flash speeds, in general, writes took about three times as long as reads did. One other request, keep us posted on battery life. Would expect that you would see some advantages here as well. One other thought from pocketpc experience, on the move, you shouldn't have any concerns about the time needed going into hibernation... just start the process, shut the box and put it away, perhaps taking a peek at the led a few minutes later to make sure it completed. Don't forget to turn off the hd shock protection software if you have it running ;-) Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices] On Sunday, August 17, 2008 5:37 PM Robert M. Lincoln wrote: No, there is not much difference. Both take about 30 secs. No, there is not much difference. Both take about 30 secs. Perhaps the solid state drive is 1 or 2 secs faster, but wake up time seems to vary a little from time to time. What is the "ladder"? Is that the horizontal scrolling progress-type bar underneath the Windows logo? If so, on my machine, it is always around 10 or 11 scrolls for physical drive and flash drive - no significant difference. It will take a while to get a good feel for this. I'm getting a new battery and will see if it gives me any more than the usual expectation of around 2 - 2.5 hrs. Right, I am mostly concerned about wake-up. I just view hibernating and wake-up pretty much as reverse processes, and expect them to be the same time. I didn't know it existed. How do I check that and turn it off? Thanks On Sunday, August 17, 2008 6:22 PM Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev] wrote: >> hd shock protection <<Varies with oem and model... >> hd shock protection << Varies with oem and model... (was more a joke than a real need to disable it) but the process essentially parks the heads when shock is detected to avoid a head crash... check your docs, don't know your model at all. >> "ladder" << Yep... you answered my question. Thanks for the info... very educational. Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices] On Wednesday, August 20, 2008 2:20 AM Kocureq wrote: Robert M. Robert M. Lincoln pisze: Still, most of the laptops are running 5400 rpm, drives. I think a jump to relatively cheap (250$) SSD will be a real gain. -- /\ /\ [ Jakub 'Kocureq' Anderwald ] /\ /\ =^;^= [ [nick][at][nick].com ] =^;^= / | [ GG# 1365999 ICQ# 31547220 ] | \ (___(|_|_| [ kocureq(a)jabber.org ] |_|_|)___) On Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:59 PM Robert M. Lincoln wrote: Re: Experience with TC1100 and Solid State Drive Latest update: the drive died after a few weeks of use. I got the message on booting up: "Operating System Not Found". This happened after I ran the Windows XP disk defragmenter. Too bad, as I was starting to really enjoy the drive. On Thursday, August 28, 2008 9:58 AM Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev] wrote: >> died <<groannnnnnnnnn!Thanks for saving me some bucks by posting this! groannnnnnnnnn! Thanks for saving me some bucks by posting this! Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices] On Thursday, August 28, 2008 1:20 PM Rainald Taesler wrote: Re: Experience with TC1100 and Solid State Drive Robert M. Lincoln wrote: Sounds very sad. :-( :-( No way to revitalize the thing? It should be covered by warranty anyway. All the best Rainald On Thursday, August 28, 2008 4:56 PM Marvin Hlavac wrote: Yes, thanks for saving me some $$$, too. Yes, thanks for saving me some $$$, too. Hmm, beside the better speed, my main reason for considering a solid state hard drive was my perceived improvement in the reliability of solid state hard drives. Do they fail a lot? Or is this a very rare occurrence? Is there something you can do to fix it, or retrieve your data? --- Marvin Hlavac Laptop GPS World http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/ .. On Friday, August 29, 2008 1:18 PM Robert M. Lincoln wrote: I could not "repair" the installation. I could not "repair" the installation. I tried to repair the OS installation using the Windows XP OS CD, but it wouldn't do it. Apparantly the partition was gone. Here's exactly what happened. I installed MS Encarta, without problems. I then ran XP's disk defrag utility. No problems. I then put the machine into hibernate mode - and that's where it failed. It couldn't write the file. My desktop was still visible. I rebooted - and that's when I got the message of "Operating System not found". Since then, I have reinstalled the XP operating system and Service Pak 3. The disk still works, but I have to start all over. This shakes my confidence. I called Transcend. The technician couldn't really help me, he said he hadn't heard of the problem before. He confirmed my suspicion that you really don't have to defrag a solid state disk. I did it just to test the drive, and, I suppose, because I just like knowing everything is "organized". I don't think I will try to defrag again. However, I don't really know if that was the problem. Did the drive just short? Who knows. I have to say, since going back to my physical 7200 rpm drive, the system seems to be slower. It's somewhat bothersome. Funny how you get used to minor performance improvements and don't want to go back. How does this relate to tablets? - My ideal tablet would be able to turn on instantly, have a long battery life, and be very lightweight. I was hoping the solid state drive would address those issues. The more a tablet meets those criteria, the more they will be used. On Friday, August 29, 2008 3:19 PM Rainald Taesler wrote: Re: Experience with TC1100 and Solid State Drive Robert M. Lincoln wrote: I fully agree. Honestly speaking: I cannot see why TabletPCs come with legacy HDDs ... Rainald On Saturday, August 30, 2008 6:15 PM Juan I. Cahis wrote: Re: Experience with TC1100 and Solid State Drive "Rainald Taesler" <taesler(a)gmx.de> wrote: Because, as Robert M. Lincoln experienced and told in this thread, solid state drives are not reliable and they crash more often than legacy HDDs (see his previous postings in this thread). Thanks Juan I. Cahis Santiago de Chile (South America) Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it! On Saturday, August 30, 2008 8:05 PM Steve Jain wrote: Re: Experience with TC1100 and Solid State Drive On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:19:45 +0200, "Rainald Taesler" <taesler(a)gmx.de> wrote: Tablets are already at a premium over regular notebooks, so adding a SSD would push them even farther out of buying range. -- Cheers, Steve Jain, Virtual Machine MVP http://vpc.essjae.com/ I do not work for Microsoft. On Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:45 AM Mike Davies wrote: And for me anyway, SSDs are not yet big enough. And for me anyway, SSDs are not yet big enough. I have already upgraded my M205 to a 160GB drive and intend to go to 250GB in the near future. Mike On Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:51 AM pedr wrote: Hi RobertFollowing your experience, I purchased the same SSD to install on my Hi Robert Following your experience, I purchased the same SSD to install on my TC1100. That's strange the TC1100 bios does not recognize the SSD. I have upgraded the bios to the latest release without success. (june 2005) The SSD works inside a USB /IDE box, so it could not be incriminated. What do you think ? Bios problem ? SSD problem? I purchased exactly the same model: TS64GSSD25-M "Robert M. Lincoln" wrote: On Friday, September 26, 2008 11:52 PM Robert M. Lincoln wrote: Pedro,Here's what I did. Pedro, Here's what I did. With the old hard disk still in place and the TC1100 turned on, I plugged in my CD-ROM drive to the TC1100 and put in the OS Restore disk. I then shut off the computer, unplugged the CD-ROM drive (which now has the disk in the drive), took out the old hard drive, put in the SSD, plugged in the CD-ROM drive to the computer, and then turned on the computer. The screen, at boot up, says to press any key if you want to boot off the CD. That allowed me to format the hard disk and install the OS and HP drivers, essentially making the machine brand new. Once done, the machine booted up right off the SSD. If you did the same sequence and didn't have any luck, you might call or email Transcend. The tech department answered the phone when I called them (maybe that was a fluke). Good luck. "pedro" <pedro(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:E26F69AB-7584-48CB-B8D3-F0E1D1BBEEC3(a)microsoft.com... On Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:27 AM Juan I. Cahis wrote: Maybe a jumper problem in the disk (Master - Slave, etc)? Maybe a jumper problem in the disk (Master - Slave, etc)? pedro <pedro(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote: TC1100.=20 2005) in my=20 the=20 =20 the=20 Formatting=20 60GB=20 errors. The=20 that this=20 drive=20 less. Everything is=20 mind=20 =20 wake=20 screen,=20 bar). It=20 that=20 for the=20 light=20 2.5"=20 is=20 drive=20 drive,=20 mode.=20 some=20 jerky, but=20 difference=20 RAM=20 difference=20 to a=20 the CPU. Thanks Juan I. Cahis Santiago de Chile (South America) Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it! On Monday, September 29, 2008 5:20 AM pedr wrote: Hi robert,Last week-end, I did exactly what you said.And Miracle ! Hi robert, Last week-end, I did exactly what you said. And Miracle ! it worked, I could format the drive and install XP on it. After that, I was pushing the driver CD and installing the TC drivers and ... a nice blue screen with ununderstanble error messages. I tried to reboot: no operating system found. I tried to put the SSD on a USB box: the disk is not recognized anymore. Now I am convinced that I got a non working SSD, the problem is probably in the contacts, that's my only explanation for why it worked on and off. I am slightly disappointed by this, this stuff is advertised as more reliable than a standard harddrive, they seem to be not reliable at all. Anyway, thanks a lot for your help, the fact that we have exactly the same configuration was essential to make the proof of the default. Take care Pedro On Saturday, October 04, 2008 12:57 AM Kevin wrote: One of the things with the SSD you purchased is the type of NAND memory it One of the things with the SSD you purchased is the type of NAND memory it uses. there is MLS and SLC. MLC (which is the drive you purchased) is very inexpensive to produce, and unfortunately suffers from amazingly slow write speeds. As such, you wouldn't see much improvement. SLC drives are more expensive, but will give you the performance improvements you are looking for. "Robert M. Lincoln" wrote: Submitted via EggHeadCafe - Software Developer Portal of Choice Implementing Continuous Scrolling UI Pattern in ASP.NET http://www.eggheadcafe.com/tutorials/aspnet/b8381915-06d9-4538-b4bb-5ac2a8e73f34/implementing-continuous-s.aspx |