Strange Problems with new WD3200AAJB Drive
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From: mcp6453 on 25 Jun 2008 09:12 I tried replacing the 160GB hard drive in my ReplayTV DVR with a brand new WD3200AAJB drive. Unfortunately, the AA drives are not compatible with the Replay 5000 series. (I have never had a problem replacing ReplayTV drives. The newer drives are largely incompatible, so the problems are now multiplying.) One of my computers has a real WD3200JB (non-AA) drive that DOES work with Replay, so I decided to reuse the AA drive by cloning the real drive to the AA drive and then using the AA drive as the boot drive in the Windows XP computer. When I installed the AA drive as the only drive in the system, the computer booted normally and everything worked well. Then I decided to run SpinRite on the new drive, just to be safe. SpinRite will not run. Regardless of which medium I boot from (floppy or CD), after I select the proper partition to scan, the program hangs at "Selecting Drive For Use..." after which "Working..." constantly flashes at the bottom of the screen. SpinRite works perfectly on this computer with the real drive installed. So it seems to me that maybe ReplayTV has written something to the drive that SpinRite doesn't like. That seems bizarre since SpinRite's purpose is to solve problems. Nevertheless, I decided to run FIXMBR from the Windows Recovery Console. Running FIXMBR reports that "This computer appears to have a non-standard or invalid master boot record." I let it run, and it reported that "The new master boot record has been successfully written." Next I ran FIXBOOT. "FIXBOOT cannot find the system drive, or the drive specified is not valid." (The BIOS still sees the drive.) Then I ran chkdsk. "The volume appears to contain one or more unrecoverable problems." (That's helpful.) My next exercise was to try to run Western Digital's Datalifeguard Tools, booting from the CD. Here's what happened: Int 13 Level Communications: Attempting Int 13 IO to drive 80 No Response ATA Level Communications: Attempting PM ATA Identify Nothing happens after that. Remember that the drive works perfectly in Windows. The drive is properly detected in the BIOS. Something really strange is happening here, so if there is anything going on related to ReplayTV, I hope someone can shed some light on the problem. Is it possible that Replay can write things to the drive that cannot be erased or reset, or am I just dealing with a defective drive? While the drive is still in warranty, I don't want to return it if there is something that I have done to it or if there is something that can be corrected in the field.
From: Arno Wagner on 25 Jun 2008 17:08 Previously mcp6453 <mcp6453(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I tried replacing the 160GB hard drive in my ReplayTV DVR with a brand > new WD3200AAJB drive. Unfortunately, the AA drives are not compatible > with the Replay 5000 series. (I have never had a problem replacing > ReplayTV drives. The newer drives are largely incompatible, so the > problems are now multiplying.) It might be a WD problem. WD drives have very bad compatibility. > One of my computers has a real WD3200JB (non-AA) drive that DOES work > with Replay, so I decided to reuse the AA drive by cloning the real > drive to the AA drive and then using the AA drive as the boot drive in > the Windows XP computer. When I installed the AA drive as the only drive > in the system, the computer booted normally and everything worked well. > Then I decided to run SpinRite on the new drive, just to be safe. > SpinRite will not run. Regardless of which medium I boot from (floppy or > CD), after I select the proper partition to scan, the program hangs at > "Selecting Drive For Use..." after which "Working..." constantly flashes > at the bottom of the screen. SpinRite works perfectly on this computer > with the real drive installed. SpinRite is essentially worthless today. > So it seems to me that maybe ReplayTV has written something to the drive > that SpinRite doesn't like. That seems bizarre since SpinRite's purpose > is to solve problems. Nevertheless, I decided to run FIXMBR from the > Windows Recovery Console. Running FIXMBR reports that "This computer > appears to have a non-standard or invalid master boot record." I let it > run, and it reported that "The new master boot record has been > successfully written." > Next I ran FIXBOOT. "FIXBOOT cannot find the system drive, or the drive > specified is not valid." (The BIOS still sees the drive.) > Then I ran chkdsk. "The volume appears to contain one or more > unrecoverable problems." (That's helpful.) > My next exercise was to try to run Western Digital's Datalifeguard > Tools, booting from the CD. Here's what happened: > Int 13 Level Communications: > Attempting Int 13 IO to drive 80 No Response > ATA Level Communications: > Attempting PM ATA Identify > Nothing happens after that. Remember that the drive works perfectly in > Windows. The drive is properly detected in the BIOS. Something really > strange is happening here, so if there is anything going on related to > ReplayTV, I hope someone can shed some light on the problem. > Is it possible that Replay can write things to the drive that cannot be > erased or reset, or am I just dealing with a defective drive? While the > drive is still in warranty, I don't want to return it if there is > something that I have done to it or if there is something that can be > corrected in the field. Theoretically, it could have set an ATA password. But unless SpinRite is completely demented, it should give an error message for that. It could also have set a host protected area. Again, this should result in an error message, but given that SpinRite is historical software at best, it may not. Arno
From: Franc Zabkar on 26 Jun 2008 03:11 On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:12:30 GMT, mcp6453 <mcp6453(a)gmail.com> put finger to keyboard and composed: >I tried replacing the 160GB hard drive in my ReplayTV DVR with a brand >new WD3200AAJB drive. Unfortunately, the AA drives are not compatible >with the Replay 5000 series. (I have never had a problem replacing >ReplayTV drives. The newer drives are largely incompatible, so the >problems are now multiplying.) > >One of my computers has a real WD3200JB (non-AA) drive that DOES work >with Replay, so I decided to reuse the AA drive by cloning the real >drive to the AA drive and then using the AA drive as the boot drive in >the Windows XP computer. When I installed the AA drive as the only drive >in the system, the computer booted normally and everything worked well. >Then I decided to run SpinRite on the new drive, just to be safe. > >SpinRite will not run. Regardless of which medium I boot from (floppy or >CD), after I select the proper partition to scan, the program hangs at >"Selecting Drive For Use..." after which "Working..." constantly flashes >at the bottom of the screen. SpinRite works perfectly on this computer >with the real drive installed. > >So it seems to me that maybe ReplayTV has written something to the drive >that SpinRite doesn't like. That seems bizarre since SpinRite's purpose >is to solve problems. Nevertheless, I decided to run FIXMBR from the >Windows Recovery Console. Running FIXMBR reports that "This computer >appears to have a non-standard or invalid master boot record." I let it >run, and it reported that "The new master boot record has been >successfully written." Try it again and again and again. You will probably get exactly the same "invalid" report every time, but there will be nothing wrong with your MBR. It's a bug. See "Error Message When You Run fixmbr Command": http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266745/ >Next I ran FIXBOOT. "FIXBOOT cannot find the system drive, or the drive >specified is not valid." (The BIOS still sees the drive.) I have no idea how ReplayTV is configured, but whatever you do, *do not* execute FIXBOOT on a FAT32 partition. You *will* destroy your data. See my disastrous experience: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3334yh http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/browse_thread/thread/b5a85f1e2122af44/88f3f04d4f9e4925?lnk=st&q=#88f3f04d4f9e4925 >Then I ran chkdsk. "The volume appears to contain one or more >unrecoverable problems." (That's helpful.) In my limited experience, CHKDSK has been useless when executed from the Recovery Console. I have had better luck from within the GUI (with the drive in a USB enclosure). >My next exercise was to try to run Western Digital's Datalifeguard >Tools, booting from the CD. Here's what happened: > >Int 13 Level Communications: >Attempting Int 13 IO to drive 80 No Response > >ATA Level Communications: >Attempting PM ATA Identify Normally I would suspect that your HDD is jumpered incorrectly or attached to the secondary IDE port ... >Nothing happens after that. Remember that the drive works perfectly in >Windows. The drive is properly detected in the BIOS. Something really >strange is happening here, so if there is anything going on related to >ReplayTV, I hope someone can shed some light on the problem. > >Is it possible that Replay can write things to the drive that cannot be >erased or reset, or am I just dealing with a defective drive? While the >drive is still in warranty, I don't want to return it if there is >something that I have done to it or if there is something that can be >corrected in the field. I still use the following old Seagate DOS utility to capture the Identify Drive data: http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/IDE-identify/FIND-ATA.EXE http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/IDE-identify/FIND-ATA.DOC The following command line retrieves the Identify Drive data from the (p)rimary (m)aster and (d)umps it to a binary file. find-ata p m d Here are two examples: http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/IDE-identify/DRIVE0.ATA (512 bytes) http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/IDE-identify/DRIVE1.ATA (512 bytes) See this document for an explanation of the above data: http://www.t13.org/Documents/UploadedDocuments/project/d1321r3-ATA-ATAPI-5.pdf Otherwise feel free to email me your Identify Drive data files and I'll post them on my web space for others to look at. - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
From: mcp6453 on 27 Jun 2008 10:28 Franc Zabkar wrote: > On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:12:30 GMT, mcp6453 <mcp6453(a)gmail.com> put > finger to keyboard and composed: > >> I tried replacing the 160GB hard drive in my ReplayTV DVR with a brand >> new WD3200AAJB drive. Unfortunately, the AA drives are not compatible >> with the Replay 5000 series. (I have never had a problem replacing >> ReplayTV drives. The newer drives are largely incompatible, so the >> problems are now multiplying.) >> >> One of my computers has a real WD3200JB (non-AA) drive that DOES work >> with Replay, so I decided to reuse the AA drive by cloning the real >> drive to the AA drive and then using the AA drive as the boot drive in >> the Windows XP computer. When I installed the AA drive as the only drive >> in the system, the computer booted normally and everything worked well. >> Then I decided to run SpinRite on the new drive, just to be safe. >> >> SpinRite will not run. Regardless of which medium I boot from (floppy or >> CD), after I select the proper partition to scan, the program hangs at >> "Selecting Drive For Use..." after which "Working..." constantly flashes >> at the bottom of the screen. SpinRite works perfectly on this computer >> with the real drive installed. >> >> So it seems to me that maybe ReplayTV has written something to the drive >> that SpinRite doesn't like. That seems bizarre since SpinRite's purpose >> is to solve problems. Nevertheless, I decided to run FIXMBR from the >> Windows Recovery Console. Running FIXMBR reports that "This computer >> appears to have a non-standard or invalid master boot record." I let it >> run, and it reported that "The new master boot record has been >> successfully written." > > Try it again and again and again. You will probably get exactly the > same "invalid" report every time, but there will be nothing wrong with > your MBR. It's a bug. > > See "Error Message When You Run fixmbr Command": > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266745/ > >> Next I ran FIXBOOT. "FIXBOOT cannot find the system drive, or the drive >> specified is not valid." (The BIOS still sees the drive.) > > I have no idea how ReplayTV is configured, but whatever you do, *do > not* execute FIXBOOT on a FAT32 partition. You *will* destroy your > data. > > See my disastrous experience: > http://preview.tinyurl.com/3334yh > http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/browse_thread/thread/b5a85f1e2122af44/88f3f04d4f9e4925?lnk=st&q=#88f3f04d4f9e4925 > >> Then I ran chkdsk. "The volume appears to contain one or more >> unrecoverable problems." (That's helpful.) > > In my limited experience, CHKDSK has been useless when executed from > the Recovery Console. I have had better luck from within the GUI (with > the drive in a USB enclosure). > >> My next exercise was to try to run Western Digital's Datalifeguard >> Tools, booting from the CD. Here's what happened: >> >> Int 13 Level Communications: >> Attempting Int 13 IO to drive 80 No Response >> >> ATA Level Communications: >> Attempting PM ATA Identify > > Normally I would suspect that your HDD is jumpered incorrectly or > attached to the secondary IDE port ... > >> Nothing happens after that. Remember that the drive works perfectly in >> Windows. The drive is properly detected in the BIOS. Something really >> strange is happening here, so if there is anything going on related to >> ReplayTV, I hope someone can shed some light on the problem. >> >> Is it possible that Replay can write things to the drive that cannot be >> erased or reset, or am I just dealing with a defective drive? While the >> drive is still in warranty, I don't want to return it if there is >> something that I have done to it or if there is something that can be >> corrected in the field. > > I still use the following old Seagate DOS utility to capture the > Identify Drive data: > http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/IDE-identify/FIND-ATA.EXE > http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/IDE-identify/FIND-ATA.DOC > > The following command line retrieves the Identify Drive data from the > (p)rimary (m)aster and (d)umps it to a binary file. > > find-ata p m d > > Here are two examples: > http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/IDE-identify/DRIVE0.ATA (512 bytes) > http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/IDE-identify/DRIVE1.ATA (512 bytes) > > See this document for an explanation of the above data: > http://www.t13.org/Documents/UploadedDocuments/project/d1321r3-ATA-ATAPI-5.pdf > > Otherwise feel free to email me your Identify Drive data files and > I'll post them on my web space for others to look at. > > - Franc Zabkar Thanks, Frank. After additional experimentation, it is clear to me that the problem is a compatibility issue with this model of WD drives. Not only does this WD3200AAJB drive not work, neither does a brand new, out-of-the-box, unformatted WD5000AAJB drive. (Both drives were delivered in incorrectly labeled WD3200JBRTL and WD5000JBRTL boxes.) Any other drive I install in this computer works perfectly. Neither AA drive works correctly. For at least the near term, I'm done with WD drives. This problem is the first one I have had with them. My next choice is Seagate with their five-year warranty. If history repeats itself, Seagate will probably go off on some tangent in the future, and I'll have to dump them in favor of WD drives.
From: Arno Wagner on 27 Jun 2008 16:51
Previously mcp6453 <mcp6453(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Franc Zabkar wrote: >> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:12:30 GMT, mcp6453 <mcp6453(a)gmail.com> put >> finger to keyboard and composed: >> >>> I tried replacing the 160GB hard drive in my ReplayTV DVR with a brand >>> new WD3200AAJB drive. Unfortunately, the AA drives are not compatible >>> with the Replay 5000 series. (I have never had a problem replacing >>> ReplayTV drives. The newer drives are largely incompatible, so the >>> problems are now multiplying.) >>> >>> One of my computers has a real WD3200JB (non-AA) drive that DOES work >>> with Replay, so I decided to reuse the AA drive by cloning the real >>> drive to the AA drive and then using the AA drive as the boot drive in >>> the Windows XP computer. When I installed the AA drive as the only drive >>> in the system, the computer booted normally and everything worked well. >>> Then I decided to run SpinRite on the new drive, just to be safe. >>> >>> SpinRite will not run. Regardless of which medium I boot from (floppy or >>> CD), after I select the proper partition to scan, the program hangs at >>> "Selecting Drive For Use..." after which "Working..." constantly flashes >>> at the bottom of the screen. SpinRite works perfectly on this computer >>> with the real drive installed. >>> >>> So it seems to me that maybe ReplayTV has written something to the drive >>> that SpinRite doesn't like. That seems bizarre since SpinRite's purpose >>> is to solve problems. Nevertheless, I decided to run FIXMBR from the >>> Windows Recovery Console. Running FIXMBR reports that "This computer >>> appears to have a non-standard or invalid master boot record." I let it >>> run, and it reported that "The new master boot record has been >>> successfully written." >> >> Try it again and again and again. You will probably get exactly the >> same "invalid" report every time, but there will be nothing wrong with >> your MBR. It's a bug. >> >> See "Error Message When You Run fixmbr Command": >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266745/ >> >>> Next I ran FIXBOOT. "FIXBOOT cannot find the system drive, or the drive >>> specified is not valid." (The BIOS still sees the drive.) >> >> I have no idea how ReplayTV is configured, but whatever you do, *do >> not* execute FIXBOOT on a FAT32 partition. You *will* destroy your >> data. >> >> See my disastrous experience: >> http://preview.tinyurl.com/3334yh >> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/browse_thread/thread/b5a85f1e2122af44/88f3f04d4f9e4925?lnk=st&q=#88f3f04d4f9e4925 >> >>> Then I ran chkdsk. "The volume appears to contain one or more >>> unrecoverable problems." (That's helpful.) >> >> In my limited experience, CHKDSK has been useless when executed from >> the Recovery Console. I have had better luck from within the GUI (with >> the drive in a USB enclosure). >> >>> My next exercise was to try to run Western Digital's Datalifeguard >>> Tools, booting from the CD. Here's what happened: >>> >>> Int 13 Level Communications: >>> Attempting Int 13 IO to drive 80 No Response >>> >>> ATA Level Communications: >>> Attempting PM ATA Identify >> >> Normally I would suspect that your HDD is jumpered incorrectly or >> attached to the secondary IDE port ... >> >>> Nothing happens after that. Remember that the drive works perfectly in >>> Windows. The drive is properly detected in the BIOS. Something really >>> strange is happening here, so if there is anything going on related to >>> ReplayTV, I hope someone can shed some light on the problem. >>> >>> Is it possible that Replay can write things to the drive that cannot be >>> erased or reset, or am I just dealing with a defective drive? While the >>> drive is still in warranty, I don't want to return it if there is >>> something that I have done to it or if there is something that can be >>> corrected in the field. >> >> I still use the following old Seagate DOS utility to capture the >> Identify Drive data: >> http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/IDE-identify/FIND-ATA.EXE >> http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/IDE-identify/FIND-ATA.DOC >> >> The following command line retrieves the Identify Drive data from the >> (p)rimary (m)aster and (d)umps it to a binary file. >> >> find-ata p m d >> >> Here are two examples: >> http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/IDE-identify/DRIVE0.ATA (512 bytes) >> http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/IDE-identify/DRIVE1.ATA (512 bytes) >> >> See this document for an explanation of the above data: >> http://www.t13.org/Documents/UploadedDocuments/project/d1321r3-ATA-ATAPI-5.pdf >> >> Otherwise feel free to email me your Identify Drive data files and >> I'll post them on my web space for others to look at. >> >> - Franc Zabkar > Thanks, Frank. After additional experimentation, it is clear to me that > the problem is a compatibility issue with this model of WD drives. Not > only does this WD3200AAJB drive not work, neither does a brand new, > out-of-the-box, unformatted WD5000AAJB drive. (Both drives were > delivered in incorrectly labeled WD3200JBRTL and WD5000JBRTL boxes.) Any > other drive I install in this computer works perfectly. Neither AA drive > works correctly. I have one WD drive that works in one external enclosure, but not one other. Shoddy engineering. > For at least the near term, I'm done with WD drives. This problem is the > first one I have had with them. My next choice is Seagate with their > five-year warranty. If history repeats itself, Seagate will probably go > off on some tangent in the future, and I'll have to dump them in favor > of WD drives. You should avoid Seagate at the moment. After they started manufacturing in China, their droves are very unreliable now. Arno |