US angry about Chinese markets...
in [Live Sound]
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From: Rupert on 4 Apr 2010 16:02 On Apr 4, 6:12 am, "George's Pro Sound Co." <bm...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > "Joe Kotroczo" <kotro...(a)mac.com> wrote in message > > news:C7DE3E56.B8B6F%kotroczo(a)mac.com... > > > > > On 04/04/2010 05:47, in article hp9257$c4...(a)speranza.aioe.org, "bob urz" > > <so...(a)inetnebr.com> wrote: > > >> Rupert wrote: > >>> On Apr 3, 12:59 pm, "Gareth Magennis" <sound.serv...(a)btconnect.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> "bob urz" <so...(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message > > >>>>news:hp7hsu$d6r$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... > > >>>>> Gareth Magennis wrote: > >>>>>> "bob urz" <so...(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>news:hp5nih$40t$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... > >>>>>>>http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=250108 > >>>>>>> bob > >>>>>> Bob, what does a Boeing contract have to do with live sound? > >>>>> Nothing? Whoops. > >>>>> My copy and paste attempt obviously failed.... > >>>>>http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=250124 > >>>>> which is still not directly live sound, but about electronics. > >>>>> And since a large percentage of gear seems to get made in that > >>>>> part of the world these days, of some interest. > >>>>> It would be interesting to know about the Chinese live sound > >>>>> production market. other than the Olympics, you really don't see > >>>>> a lot of stories on it. Who knows, feedback could but you in jail > >>>>> over there... > >>>>> I recently read that JBL was going to quit building diaphragms > >>>>> and some speakers in Northridge. Probably another manufacturing > >>>>> job headed to china or such in the future. > >>>>> bob > >>>> Probably this then. > > >>>>http://www.prosoundnewseurope.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=v... > > >>> Didn't work out to well when EAW sent all their manufacturing to > >>> China. Almost did the company in - until they brought the high end > >>> lines back to the U.S. last year. Hopefully JBL doesn't suffer the > >>> same fate, though they have been manufacturing their lower end lines > >>> there for some time now. Looks like I won't be buying JBL drivers > >>> anymore. I'll stick with the EV and the RCF stuff I suppose. > > >>> Rupert > > >> I was thinking the same thing. EAW owed the concert touring market back > >> in the pre line array days of 650's, 850's and such. Then they pissed > >> this all away. I suppose you can say the Vertec series is the modern day > >> workhorse in concert touring. But just like what happened to EAW, > >> it can happen to JBL if the market perceives inferior product or > >> performance. > > >> I don't know if i can call it a seismic shift, but i am seeing more D&B > >> out these days. And the guys that can afford it out with Meyers. > >> Who knows? maybe EV can make a comeback with US sourced touring systems. > >> Other than Kenny Chesney and old DB Chicago stuff, i don't see a lot of > >> EV in the wild lately... > > > Just an observation: to me it looks like the US companies, like JBL, EV > > and > > to a certain extent also EAW, always try to cover the whole market, from > > premium systems down to bottom-feeder plastic speakers. Whereas the > > European > > companies that seem to be doing rather well at the moment, like d&b or > > L'Acoustics, only do high-end stuff. The only European company that tried > > to > > do both high-end and low-end which comes to mind is Turbosound, and look > > where they are now. > > > Not sure what conclusion one can draw from that observation. > > > But I'm glad that there is still quality stuff being manufactured in > > Europe. > > some get close but nothing beats Meyer IMO > George You haven't heard K1 then if you're comparing high end lines. Meyer's flagship line is weaker in comparison in terms of throw, LF extension and HF clarity. Not saying Meyer is bad by any means as it's very good, but the K1 is really something to hear.
From: George's Pro Sound Co. on 5 Apr 2010 01:42 "Rupert" <foodsteaks(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:6612011f-6cf0-45b2-8021-b097d97da121(a)x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com... On Apr 4, 6:12 am, "George's Pro Sound Co." <bm...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > "Joe Kotroczo" <kotro...(a)mac.com> wrote in message > > news:C7DE3E56.B8B6F%kotroczo(a)mac.com... > > > > > On 04/04/2010 05:47, in article hp9257$c4...(a)speranza.aioe.org, "bob > > urz" > > <so...(a)inetnebr.com> wrote: > > >> Rupert wrote: > >>> On Apr 3, 12:59 pm, "Gareth Magennis" <sound.serv...(a)btconnect.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> "bob urz" <so...(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message > > >>>>news:hp7hsu$d6r$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... > > >>>>> Gareth Magennis wrote: > >>>>>> "bob urz" <so...(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>news:hp5nih$40t$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... > >>>>>>>http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=250108 > >>>>>>> bob > >>>>>> Bob, what does a Boeing contract have to do with live sound? > >>>>> Nothing? Whoops. > >>>>> My copy and paste attempt obviously failed.... > >>>>>http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=250124 > >>>>> which is still not directly live sound, but about electronics. > >>>>> And since a large percentage of gear seems to get made in that > >>>>> part of the world these days, of some interest. > >>>>> It would be interesting to know about the Chinese live sound > >>>>> production market. other than the Olympics, you really don't see > >>>>> a lot of stories on it. Who knows, feedback could but you in jail > >>>>> over there... > >>>>> I recently read that JBL was going to quit building diaphragms > >>>>> and some speakers in Northridge. Probably another manufacturing > >>>>> job headed to china or such in the future. > >>>>> bob > >>>> Probably this then. > > >>>>http://www.prosoundnewseurope.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=v... > > >>> Didn't work out to well when EAW sent all their manufacturing to > >>> China. Almost did the company in - until they brought the high end > >>> lines back to the U.S. last year. Hopefully JBL doesn't suffer the > >>> same fate, though they have been manufacturing their lower end lines > >>> there for some time now. Looks like I won't be buying JBL drivers > >>> anymore. I'll stick with the EV and the RCF stuff I suppose. > > >>> Rupert > > >> I was thinking the same thing. EAW owed the concert touring market back > >> in the pre line array days of 650's, 850's and such. Then they pissed > >> this all away. I suppose you can say the Vertec series is the modern > >> day > >> workhorse in concert touring. But just like what happened to EAW, > >> it can happen to JBL if the market perceives inferior product or > >> performance. > > >> I don't know if i can call it a seismic shift, but i am seeing more D&B > >> out these days. And the guys that can afford it out with Meyers. > >> Who knows? maybe EV can make a comeback with US sourced touring > >> systems. > >> Other than Kenny Chesney and old DB Chicago stuff, i don't see a lot of > >> EV in the wild lately... > > > Just an observation: to me it looks like the US companies, like JBL, EV > > and > > to a certain extent also EAW, always try to cover the whole market, from > > premium systems down to bottom-feeder plastic speakers. Whereas the > > European > > companies that seem to be doing rather well at the moment, like d&b or > > L'Acoustics, only do high-end stuff. The only European company that > > tried > > to > > do both high-end and low-end which comes to mind is Turbosound, and look > > where they are now. > > > Not sure what conclusion one can draw from that observation. > > > But I'm glad that there is still quality stuff being manufactured in > > Europe. > > some get close but nothing beats Meyer IMO > George You haven't heard K1 then if you're comparing high end lines. Meyer's flagship line is weaker in comparison in terms of throw, LF extension and HF clarity. Not saying Meyer is bad by any means as it's very good, but the K1 is really something to hear. sorry I dont share your opinion of the k1 George
From: Rupert on 5 Apr 2010 03:11 On Apr 4, 10:42 pm, "George's Pro Sound Co." <bm...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > "Rupert" <foodste...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:6612011f-6cf0-45b2-8021-b097d97da121(a)x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com... > On Apr 4, 6:12 am, "George's Pro Sound Co." <bm...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > "Joe Kotroczo" <kotro...(a)mac.com> wrote in message > > >news:C7DE3E56.B8B6F%kotroczo(a)mac.com... > > > > On 04/04/2010 05:47, in article hp9257$c4...(a)speranza.aioe.org, "bob > > > urz" > > > <so...(a)inetnebr.com> wrote: > > > >> Rupert wrote: > > >>> On Apr 3, 12:59 pm, "Gareth Magennis" <sound.serv...(a)btconnect.com> > > >>> wrote: > > >>>> "bob urz" <so...(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message > > > >>>>news:hp7hsu$d6r$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... > > > >>>>> Gareth Magennis wrote: > > >>>>>> "bob urz" <so...(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message > > >>>>>>news:hp5nih$40t$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... > > >>>>>>>http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=250108 > > >>>>>>> bob > > >>>>>> Bob, what does a Boeing contract have to do with live sound? > > >>>>> Nothing? Whoops. > > >>>>> My copy and paste attempt obviously failed.... > > >>>>>http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=250124 > > >>>>> which is still not directly live sound, but about electronics. > > >>>>> And since a large percentage of gear seems to get made in that > > >>>>> part of the world these days, of some interest. > > >>>>> It would be interesting to know about the Chinese live sound > > >>>>> production market. other than the Olympics, you really don't see > > >>>>> a lot of stories on it. Who knows, feedback could but you in jail > > >>>>> over there... > > >>>>> I recently read that JBL was going to quit building diaphragms > > >>>>> and some speakers in Northridge. Probably another manufacturing > > >>>>> job headed to china or such in the future. > > >>>>> bob > > >>>> Probably this then. > > > >>>>http://www.prosoundnewseurope.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=v... > > > >>> Didn't work out to well when EAW sent all their manufacturing to > > >>> China. Almost did the company in - until they brought the high end > > >>> lines back to the U.S. last year. Hopefully JBL doesn't suffer the > > >>> same fate, though they have been manufacturing their lower end lines > > >>> there for some time now. Looks like I won't be buying JBL drivers > > >>> anymore. I'll stick with the EV and the RCF stuff I suppose. > > > >>> Rupert > > > >> I was thinking the same thing. EAW owed the concert touring market back > > >> in the pre line array days of 650's, 850's and such. Then they pissed > > >> this all away. I suppose you can say the Vertec series is the modern > > >> day > > >> workhorse in concert touring. But just like what happened to EAW, > > >> it can happen to JBL if the market perceives inferior product or > > >> performance. > > > >> I don't know if i can call it a seismic shift, but i am seeing more D&B > > >> out these days. And the guys that can afford it out with Meyers. > > >> Who knows? maybe EV can make a comeback with US sourced touring > > >> systems. > > >> Other than Kenny Chesney and old DB Chicago stuff, i don't see a lot of > > >> EV in the wild lately... > > > > Just an observation: to me it looks like the US companies, like JBL, EV > > > and > > > to a certain extent also EAW, always try to cover the whole market, from > > > premium systems down to bottom-feeder plastic speakers. Whereas the > > > European > > > companies that seem to be doing rather well at the moment, like d&b or > > > L'Acoustics, only do high-end stuff. The only European company that > > > tried > > > to > > > do both high-end and low-end which comes to mind is Turbosound, and look > > > where they are now. > > > > Not sure what conclusion one can draw from that observation. > > > > But I'm glad that there is still quality stuff being manufactured in > > > Europe. > > > some get close but nothing beats Meyer IMO > > George > > You haven't heard K1 then if you're comparing high end lines. Meyer's > flagship line is weaker in comparison in terms of throw, LF extension > and HF clarity. Not saying Meyer is bad by any means as it's very > good, but the K1 is really something to hear. > > sorry I dont share your opinion of the k1 > > George No apology needed. Where did you hear it?
From: George's Pro Sound Co. on 5 Apr 2010 06:54 "Rupert" <foodsteaks(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:c2c812db-a05e-42d8-810c-87a74479f53f(a)z4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com... On Apr 4, 10:42 pm, "George's Pro Sound Co." <bm...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > "Rupert" <foodste...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:6612011f-6cf0-45b2-8021-b097d97da121(a)x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com... > On Apr 4, 6:12 am, "George's Pro Sound Co." <bm...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > "Joe Kotroczo" <kotro...(a)mac.com> wrote in message > > >news:C7DE3E56.B8B6F%kotroczo(a)mac.com... > > > > On 04/04/2010 05:47, in article hp9257$c4...(a)speranza.aioe.org, "bob > > > urz" > > > <so...(a)inetnebr.com> wrote: > > > >> Rupert wrote: > > >>> On Apr 3, 12:59 pm, "Gareth Magennis" <sound.serv...(a)btconnect.com> > > >>> wrote: > > >>>> "bob urz" <so...(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message > > > >>>>news:hp7hsu$d6r$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... > > > >>>>> Gareth Magennis wrote: > > >>>>>> "bob urz" <so...(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message > > >>>>>>news:hp5nih$40t$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... > > >>>>>>>http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=250108 > > >>>>>>> bob > > >>>>>> Bob, what does a Boeing contract have to do with live sound? > > >>>>> Nothing? Whoops. > > >>>>> My copy and paste attempt obviously failed.... > > >>>>>http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=250124 > > >>>>> which is still not directly live sound, but about electronics. > > >>>>> And since a large percentage of gear seems to get made in that > > >>>>> part of the world these days, of some interest. > > >>>>> It would be interesting to know about the Chinese live sound > > >>>>> production market. other than the Olympics, you really don't see > > >>>>> a lot of stories on it. Who knows, feedback could but you in jail > > >>>>> over there... > > >>>>> I recently read that JBL was going to quit building diaphragms > > >>>>> and some speakers in Northridge. Probably another manufacturing > > >>>>> job headed to china or such in the future. > > >>>>> bob > > >>>> Probably this then. > > > >>>>http://www.prosoundnewseurope.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=v... > > > >>> Didn't work out to well when EAW sent all their manufacturing to > > >>> China. Almost did the company in - until they brought the high end > > >>> lines back to the U.S. last year. Hopefully JBL doesn't suffer the > > >>> same fate, though they have been manufacturing their lower end lines > > >>> there for some time now. Looks like I won't be buying JBL drivers > > >>> anymore. I'll stick with the EV and the RCF stuff I suppose. > > > >>> Rupert > > > >> I was thinking the same thing. EAW owed the concert touring market > > >> back > > >> in the pre line array days of 650's, 850's and such. Then they pissed > > >> this all away. I suppose you can say the Vertec series is the modern > > >> day > > >> workhorse in concert touring. But just like what happened to EAW, > > >> it can happen to JBL if the market perceives inferior product or > > >> performance. > > > >> I don't know if i can call it a seismic shift, but i am seeing more > > >> D&B > > >> out these days. And the guys that can afford it out with Meyers. > > >> Who knows? maybe EV can make a comeback with US sourced touring > > >> systems. > > >> Other than Kenny Chesney and old DB Chicago stuff, i don't see a lot > > >> of > > >> EV in the wild lately... > > > > Just an observation: to me it looks like the US companies, like JBL, > > > EV > > > and > > > to a certain extent also EAW, always try to cover the whole market, > > > from > > > premium systems down to bottom-feeder plastic speakers. Whereas the > > > European > > > companies that seem to be doing rather well at the moment, like d&b or > > > L'Acoustics, only do high-end stuff. The only European company that > > > tried > > > to > > > do both high-end and low-end which comes to mind is Turbosound, and > > > look > > > where they are now. > > > > Not sure what conclusion one can draw from that observation. > > > > But I'm glad that there is still quality stuff being manufactured in > > > Europe. > > > some get close but nothing beats Meyer IMO > > George > > You haven't heard K1 then if you're comparing high end lines. Meyer's > flagship line is weaker in comparison in terms of throw, LF extension > and HF clarity. Not saying Meyer is bad by any means as it's very > good, but the K1 is really something to hear. > > sorry I dont share your opinion of the k1 > > George No apology needed. Where did you hear it? Coachella. I think it was about even with D&B quality, nice loud and clear but to "present" of course with so many elements that make up the mix how can one guy out in a sea of people decide if it was the engineer, the bands or the speakers, I have heard plenty of abused Meyer rigs as well Georhe
From: Rupert on 5 Apr 2010 11:08 On Apr 5, 3:54 am, "George's Pro Sound Co." <bm...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > "Rupert" <foodste...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:c2c812db-a05e-42d8-810c-87a74479f53f(a)z4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com... > On Apr 4, 10:42 pm, "George's Pro Sound Co." <bm...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > "Rupert" <foodste...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:6612011f-6cf0-45b2-8021-b097d97da121(a)x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com.... > > On Apr 4, 6:12 am, "George's Pro Sound Co." <bm...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > "Joe Kotroczo" <kotro...(a)mac.com> wrote in message > > > >news:C7DE3E56.B8B6F%kotroczo(a)mac.com... > > > > > On 04/04/2010 05:47, in article hp9257$c4...(a)speranza.aioe.org, "bob > > > > urz" > > > > <so...(a)inetnebr.com> wrote: > > > > >> Rupert wrote: > > > >>> On Apr 3, 12:59 pm, "Gareth Magennis" <sound.serv...(a)btconnect.com> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>>> "bob urz" <so...(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message > > > > >>>>news:hp7hsu$d6r$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... > > > > >>>>> Gareth Magennis wrote: > > > >>>>>> "bob urz" <so...(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message > > > >>>>>>news:hp5nih$40t$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... > > > >>>>>>>http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=250108 > > > >>>>>>> bob > > > >>>>>> Bob, what does a Boeing contract have to do with live sound? > > > >>>>> Nothing? Whoops. > > > >>>>> My copy and paste attempt obviously failed.... > > > >>>>>http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=250124 > > > >>>>> which is still not directly live sound, but about electronics. > > > >>>>> And since a large percentage of gear seems to get made in that > > > >>>>> part of the world these days, of some interest. > > > >>>>> It would be interesting to know about the Chinese live sound > > > >>>>> production market. other than the Olympics, you really don't see > > > >>>>> a lot of stories on it. Who knows, feedback could but you in jail > > > >>>>> over there... > > > >>>>> I recently read that JBL was going to quit building diaphragms > > > >>>>> and some speakers in Northridge. Probably another manufacturing > > > >>>>> job headed to china or such in the future. > > > >>>>> bob > > > >>>> Probably this then. > > > > >>>>http://www.prosoundnewseurope.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=v... > > > > >>> Didn't work out to well when EAW sent all their manufacturing to > > > >>> China. Almost did the company in - until they brought the high end > > > >>> lines back to the U.S. last year. Hopefully JBL doesn't suffer the > > > >>> same fate, though they have been manufacturing their lower end lines > > > >>> there for some time now. Looks like I won't be buying JBL drivers > > > >>> anymore. I'll stick with the EV and the RCF stuff I suppose. > > > > >>> Rupert > > > > >> I was thinking the same thing. EAW owed the concert touring market > > > >> back > > > >> in the pre line array days of 650's, 850's and such. Then they pissed > > > >> this all away. I suppose you can say the Vertec series is the modern > > > >> day > > > >> workhorse in concert touring. But just like what happened to EAW, > > > >> it can happen to JBL if the market perceives inferior product or > > > >> performance. > > > > >> I don't know if i can call it a seismic shift, but i am seeing more > > > >> D&B > > > >> out these days. And the guys that can afford it out with Meyers. > > > >> Who knows? maybe EV can make a comeback with US sourced touring > > > >> systems. > > > >> Other than Kenny Chesney and old DB Chicago stuff, i don't see a lot > > > >> of > > > >> EV in the wild lately... > > > > > Just an observation: to me it looks like the US companies, like JBL, > > > > EV > > > > and > > > > to a certain extent also EAW, always try to cover the whole market, > > > > from > > > > premium systems down to bottom-feeder plastic speakers. Whereas the > > > > European > > > > companies that seem to be doing rather well at the moment, like d&b or > > > > L'Acoustics, only do high-end stuff. The only European company that > > > > tried > > > > to > > > > do both high-end and low-end which comes to mind is Turbosound, and > > > > look > > > > where they are now. > > > > > Not sure what conclusion one can draw from that observation. > > > > > But I'm glad that there is still quality stuff being manufactured in > > > > Europe. > > > > some get close but nothing beats Meyer IMO > > > George > > > You haven't heard K1 then if you're comparing high end lines. Meyer's > > flagship line is weaker in comparison in terms of throw, LF extension > > and HF clarity. Not saying Meyer is bad by any means as it's very > > good, but the K1 is really something to hear. > > > sorry I dont share your opinion of the k1 > > > George > > No apology needed. Where did you hear it? > > Coachella. > I think it was about even with D&B quality, nice loud and clear but to > "present" of course with so many elements that make up the mix how can one > guy out in a sea of people decide if it was the engineer, the bands or the > speakers, I have heard plenty of abused Meyer rigs as well > Georhe I guess one man's "too present" is another's "nice and crisp" ;-) I too was at Coachella the first time I heard it, I believe it was Rat Sound's debut of the system. It was still in beta then so I know the processor settings were being worked on. Even still, I though it was very impressive. For $1.5m worth of speakers, it should have been. The d&b is good stuff, but I think the top end of of the K1 with the V- DOSC waveguide has the best HF I've heard on a large scale system. But then again, that's the sound that I like, It may not be for everyone. That said, I'm happy mixing on any from Meyer, L'Acoustics, d&b, EV, EAW, etc. as long as it's Enough Rig for the Gig®. I still do NOT like JBL Vertec though they do sound better than they used to with the latest processor settings. You can only do so much with an inherently flawed box though. Rupert
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