From: Karl E. Peterson on
Helmut Meukel wrote:
>>> The title of "Afterthought" more properly belongs to "While...Wend".
>>> <g>
>>
>> Huh? That one goes *waaaaay* back, to the days well before compound
>> keywords. Shoot, it might have even preceeded For/Next?
>
> Hmm,
>
> even the TSR-80 Basic had For/Next, I tried to look into my old manual
> for While/Wend because I can't remember it, but I couldn't find the manual
> any more :-(
> My collection of manuals still contains GW-Basic, Vectra-Basic -First
> Edition, 1985-, MS Basic PDS 7.0, VB-DOS, FORTRAN (1972) and
> HP 1000 A-Series Computer Handbook 5th Edition (12/89).

Okay, I concede. I just pulled up my PDF for Dartmouth BASIC (Oct
1964), and it definitely has FOR/NEXT in it. <g> No mention of
WHILE/WEND there. Nor in a 1972 "BASIC User's Manual" from Oregon
State University.

But, WHILE/WEND is a part of QuickBASIC 2.0 (1986). So I wonder if
that was a MSFT invention? I sure thought I recalled using it back in
the 70s, myself.

--
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


From: Helmut Meukel on

"Karl E. Peterson" <karl(a)exmvps.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:OvwXIbxuKHA.4464(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Helmut Meukel wrote:
>>>> The title of "Afterthought" more properly belongs to "While...Wend".
>>>> <g>
>>>
>>> Huh? That one goes *waaaaay* back, to the days well before compound
>>> keywords. Shoot, it might have even preceeded For/Next?
>>
>> Hmm,
>>
>> even the TSR-80 Basic had For/Next, I tried to look into my old manual
>> for While/Wend because I can't remember it, but I couldn't find the manual
>> any more :-(
>> My collection of manuals still contains GW-Basic, Vectra-Basic -First
>> Edition, 1985-, MS Basic PDS 7.0, VB-DOS, FORTRAN (1972) and
>> HP 1000 A-Series Computer Handbook 5th Edition (12/89).
>
> Okay, I concede. I just pulled up my PDF for Dartmouth BASIC (Oct 1964), and
> it definitely has FOR/NEXT in it. <g> No mention of WHILE/WEND there. Nor in
> a 1972 "BASIC User's Manual" from Oregon State University.
>
> But, WHILE/WEND is a part of QuickBASIC 2.0 (1986). So I wonder if that was a
> MSFT invention? I sure thought I recalled using it back in the 70s, myself.
>
> --
> .NET: It's About Trust!
> http://vfred.mvps.org
>

Hi Karl,

so your experience goes farther back than mine.

I started programming about 1975/76 with a HP 9815 Desktop Calulator with
16 KByte RAM (I think). It was part of a weighting solution for a dyehouse.
The recipes were stored on tape cartridges and the 9815 controlled three scales
for weighting dyestuffs and chemicals and three card readers associated with the
scales. Punched cards on every drum of dyestuff to check if it was the
prescribed
dyestuff.
My employer purchased the system. I then worked as a textile engeneer for him.
The system became my reponsibility, so I wanted to know how it worked.
For some weeks I disconnected the 9815 every weekend and stepped through
the code. Had to do it weekends, because the dyehouse run 3 shifts 24 hours
a day.
Finally I began to improve the program.

kind regards

Helmut.

From: Karl E. Peterson on
Helmut Meukel wrote:
> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl(a)exmvps.org> schrieb...
>> Helmut Meukel wrote:
>>>>> The title of "Afterthought" more properly belongs to "While...Wend".
>>>>> <g>
>>>>
>>>> Huh? That one goes *waaaaay* back, to the days well before compound
>>>> keywords. Shoot, it might have even preceeded For/Next?
>>>
>>> Hmm,
>>>
>>> even the TSR-80 Basic had For/Next, I tried to look into my old manual
>>> for While/Wend because I can't remember it, but I couldn't find the manual
>>> any more :-(
>>> My collection of manuals still contains GW-Basic, Vectra-Basic -First
>>> Edition, 1985-, MS Basic PDS 7.0, VB-DOS, FORTRAN (1972) and
>>> HP 1000 A-Series Computer Handbook 5th Edition (12/89).
>>
>> Okay, I concede. I just pulled up my PDF for Dartmouth BASIC (Oct 1964),
>> and it definitely has FOR/NEXT in it. <g> No mention of WHILE/WEND there.
>> Nor in a 1972 "BASIC User's Manual" from Oregon State University.
>>
>> But, WHILE/WEND is a part of QuickBASIC 2.0 (1986). So I wonder if that
>> was a MSFT invention? I sure thought I recalled using it back in the 70s,
>> myself.
>
> so your experience goes farther back than mine.

Well, I have the manuals, but only because of the internet. Actually,
I think I do have a paper manual somewhere for the original BASIC, but
I'm not at all sure where that may be.

> I started programming about 1975/76 with a HP 9815 Desktop Calulator with
> 16 KByte RAM (I think).

The first BASIC I worked with was right around that same time. Maybe a
year earlier. We were using teletypes that connected to a distant
mainframe, though. Code was stored on papertape, like this:

http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/samp-collection.html#Altair-BASIC-Paper-Tape

--
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfred.mvps.org


From: ralph on
On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:15:56 -0800, Karl E. Peterson <karl(a)exmvps.org>
wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm just looking at it with my purist's hat on. In the case of a form
>>> I can use Me in many cases. I think With/End With was an afterthought
>>> that the MS designers came up with later end with. It's not a major
>>> problem!
>>>
>>> MM
>>
>> Actually a well-thought out extension to the language.
>>
>> The title of "Afterthought" more properly belongs to "While...Wend".
>> <g>
>
>Huh? That one goes *waaaaay* back, to the days well before compound
>keywords. Shoot, it might have even preceeded For/Next?

Yeah, I should have been clearer. I didn't mean that While...Wend was
a Microsoft invention, only that it was essentially just a whim of an
author. I thought that was common knowledge.

There is an article somewhere. I'm looking ...

-ralph
From: Dee Earley on
On 03/03/2010 20:48, Helmut Meukel wrote:
> even the TSR-80 Basic had For/Next, I tried to look into my old manual
> for While/Wend because I can't remember it, but I couldn't find the manual
> any more :-(
> My collection of manuals still contains GW-Basic, Vectra-Basic -First
> Edition, 1985-, MS Basic PDS 7.0, VB-DOS, FORTRAN (1972) and
> HP 1000 A-Series Computer Handbook 5th Edition (12/89).

Some of those predate me...

--
Dee Earley (dee.earley(a)icode.co.uk)
i-Catcher Development Team

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