cannot build opencobol-1.1 under cygwin
in [Cobol]
|
Prev: Spin-off
Next: In praise of compiler writers
From: Anonymous on 20 Apr 2010 08:05 In article <835j6mFp0bU1(a)mid.individual.net>, Pete Dashwood <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: >docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: >> In article <82tpr7FubrU1(a)mid.individual.net>, >> Pete Dashwood <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: >>> docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: >>>> In article >>>> <84aeba39-2d2b-4fff-96b6-e35b7ad3fcf1(a)y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, >>>> Richard <riplin(a)Azonic.co.nz> wrote: >>>> >>>> [snip] >>>> >>>>> In 1983 Paul Allen gave a talk at COMDEC (I think it was) about >>>>> 'the next version (2) of MS-DOS' where he promised various >>>>> features such as 'Help' (which did appear in MS-DOS 5). One thing >>>>> that was promised was command line editing and history (which was >>>>> already in Unix and DRI's CP/M-86 and other). >>>> >>>> My memory is, admittedly, porous, perhaps e'en moreso when it comes >>>> to two-and-a-half decades-old operating systems... but I seem to >>>> recall being able to get back at least the last command line >>>> Enter'd by pressing PF3. >>> >>> Yes, I thought that when I read Richard's post, but I saw little >>> point in responding, as my posts just seem like a red rag to >>> Richard, and it is not a particularly important part of the overall >>> anti-MS diatribe. >> >> (note - I recall being taught that male bovines are colorblind and >> the hue of the cape is dictated by tradition... that being said, on >> to an attempt at humor and what may now be an obscure literary >> reference) >> >> As the Germans used to say, Mr Dashwood... aiee, Toro, Toro, andale, >> Toro! Vamanos a la Muerte Por La Tarde! > >S?, Papa, pero a veces yo tambien soy un toro... Quieres ir pescar? :-) Non, je ne veux pas pecher, je veux peche. (sorry, I don't have the patience to reconfigure pico for the high-end ASCII letters-with-accents character set... attempts in the past have caused me to stray into the Dreaded Greek Character Zone) ('Hoi, Stavros, Alexi, Iannos... we have own Zone now!') (no wonder dialect humor died) DD
From: Pete Dashwood on 20 Apr 2010 08:23 Richard wrote: <snipped>>> >>>> My post was actually light-hearted, >> >>> No it wasn't. You made insulting and derogatory remarks. >> >> That was not the intention and I wrote it with tongue in cheek. > > Unfortunately, tongues and cheeks do not travel well over the > internet. Perhaps not. Nevertheless, the post was not intended to be insulting or offensive. > >> You need to lighten up Richard. > > I am sure that racist jokes, too, are very funny, ... to other > racists. Not being a racist, I wouldn't know. > >> I don't think anyone was insulted or derogated (if there is such a >> word) by my post. Well, obviously, you say you were. All I will say >> again is that it was not my intention. > > It wasn't me that was insulted. Then why not let the person concerned make their own protest, if they feel moved to and I will deal directly with that person? >I know who wrote the 'configure' and > 'make' that you referred to and you called him: "a very insecure > techie, in the interests of job security." and accused him of being > brain damaged. That is just mischievous and cynical. There was NO personal reference to a specific individual, none was intended, and there was absolutely NO accusation aginst anybody. I used hyperbole as a device for amusement, that is all. What exactly are you trying to achieve here? Make an argument where none exists? Stir trouble if possible? Get a life. > > Personal insults are not part of my humour. > > (except of you of course). ;-) I have seen no evidence of you having ANY humour, personal or otherwise. I HAVE seen evidence of you using personal insults. I don't recall much being achieved by it. > >> At least one other poster responded in the same vein as my original, >> so the fact that it was not entirely serious was NOT lost on at >> least one other person. > > I am not sure who you thought used 'the same vein', none that I can > see. You are suffierng from a lack of vision as well as humour apparently. <snipped> As you might expect, I see no point in pursuing this and, as I HAVE an actual life, I won't waste further time in silly exchanges with you. When you have somethng worth responding to, I'll respond. (or not...) Meantime, this post can set the record straight. There was NO malicious, insulting or derogatory intent against any given individual or person (not even the OP) in my post. It was intended to be light hearted. I don't think you can say the same about your response. Pete. -- "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
From: Pete Dashwood on 20 Apr 2010 09:19 Richard wrote: > On Apr 18, 12:53 am, "Pete Dashwood" > <dashw...(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: > >>> Given a choice I would prefer no UI at all and the job just gets >>> done. >> >>> Regular jobs get scripted and cronned. >> >> Other than that, I think your points are fair. I'd like to know how >> you psychically communicate with a computer so it doesn't need an >> interface,but if you have managed to pull that off, "Good Luck!" > > Stuff can be started on bootup using rc.sysinit or rc.local and that > is done using a text editor which may be GUI or text. > > Some tasks are started at intervals automatically using cron. Again a > text editor is used to set this up. > > For example my backup runs every night to sync changes to an off-site > machine. I never have to click options or make selections, it works > out what has changed and sends me an email if there are problems (for > example if connection lost). > > Other stuff (on my clients machines) runs continuously. A monitor > program checks the log files and the input queues and, in the first > place, takes action if the process is not functioning correctly, if > this fails to correct then it sends out emails. > > It is about making computers do what they do best rather than having > people do it. > > Of course the 'interface' is script files and logs and emails and that > is an editor, when required, whether GUI or text based. > > Of course some stuff _requires_ a user interface, it is only my > preference (as originally stated) that there be none. > > For example one system (a couple of decades ago it seems) was for > warehousing from a client who could not change his invoicing system. > The requirement was to take the printed invoice and key it into a nice > UI so that the warehousing/despatch system could process it. > > I didn't do that (well actually I did do a UI as well), I wrote a > program that emulated a printer that picked out all the relevant > details, reprinted the invoice and created the warehouse order. We > connected the machines using modems (pre internet) and they just > 'printed' invoices. Thanks. I found that interesting. Particularly the last paragraph which looks like a smart and imaginative solution. I have always had respect for your ability and approaches, Richard, and I know you support the use of templating which I have found indispensable. I understand what you outlined above and I know you like general rather than specific solutions, just as I do. It is probably fair to say that much of what you are describing is about regular processes and batch runs that are repeated often? Then it is fine to configure it and let it go. The world I live in is much more dynamic. Things change and they sometimes change in the middle of a "run". Tools have to deal with stuff that is really fluid. The same tool can be used 100 times and every time is different, yet it must achieve the same result. Certainly, there is a base configuration which is set up once via a GUI interface, but then it can be changed, in response to the requirements, at any time the user needs to change it. Wherever possible "smartness" is built in so that configuring is minimized, but manual overrides have to be available and they require interfacing. I'm running Windows (or Web Forms) and you are... not. :-) I don't live in your world and have little understanding of it, but I know you dislike mine intensely. Nevertheless, I refuse to get emotional about computers and software. I deal with Microsoft and Windows because that is where my market is. I am very satisfied with the software and also the support I receive from MS and other MS users. I am developing for a platform they have provided for free (.NET), using a language that is way more powerful than COBOL ever was (C#), also free, with tools that are way better than anything I ever used on mainframes or with COBOL, and I'm actually more productive now than I have ever been in my life. I'm also enjoying it far more. (And I have loved my job all my life.) Certainly, I didn't experiment with all the stuff you did over the years (and retain the manuals for all of it... :-)) and you are right when you say that other people were dong what MS is now, many years before them. My world is now about Objects (components, largely...) and Layers and I think this is supported by many other environments besides Microsoft. The people who consume the software I am writing are running Windows, so that's where I'll probably stay. I did say some time back that if Win 7 was the same disaster Vista was, I would move. The indications are that it is not, and I intend to set up a virtual machine with it as soon as I have some spare time (yeah... right!). If I don't move, it will be because it makes sense to stay with what I have, not because I am passionate about Microsoft (or any other computer company or software). I can remember in the old days people being passionate about ICL or IBM or Honeywell or NCR or Univac. (Where are they now?) I never felt that way. I worked with all of them and moved around to get experience with mainframes. In the process I found good things in most environments. (One of my favourites was finding that Burroughs, unlike everybody else who was implementing Indexed SEQUENTIAL files (with indexes updated in real time), had a file organization called Indexed RANDOM. Records and index entries were simply appended to the file and when you closed it, the new index entries were sorted and merged into the main index... I thought that was imaginative at the time. :-) What I DO think is important, is the ability to bring original, imaginative, and innovative solutions to WHATEVER platform is being utilized, as you outlined above. Interfacing (or not...) may well be part of that. Pete. -- "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
From: Pete Dashwood on 20 Apr 2010 09:31 docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: > In article <835j6mFp0bU1(a)mid.individual.net>, > Pete Dashwood <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: >> docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: >>> In article <82tpr7FubrU1(a)mid.individual.net>, >>> Pete Dashwood <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: >>>> docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: >>>>> In article >>>>> <84aeba39-2d2b-4fff-96b6-e35b7ad3fcf1(a)y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, >>>>> Richard <riplin(a)Azonic.co.nz> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> [snip] >>>>> >>>>>> In 1983 Paul Allen gave a talk at COMDEC (I think it was) about >>>>>> 'the next version (2) of MS-DOS' where he promised various >>>>>> features such as 'Help' (which did appear in MS-DOS 5). One thing >>>>>> that was promised was command line editing and history (which was >>>>>> already in Unix and DRI's CP/M-86 and other). >>>>> >>>>> My memory is, admittedly, porous, perhaps e'en moreso when it >>>>> comes to two-and-a-half decades-old operating systems... but I >>>>> seem to recall being able to get back at least the last command >>>>> line Enter'd by pressing PF3. >>>> >>>> Yes, I thought that when I read Richard's post, but I saw little >>>> point in responding, as my posts just seem like a red rag to >>>> Richard, and it is not a particularly important part of the overall >>>> anti-MS diatribe. >>> >>> (note - I recall being taught that male bovines are colorblind and >>> the hue of the cape is dictated by tradition... that being said, on >>> to an attempt at humor and what may now be an obscure literary >>> reference) >>> >>> As the Germans used to say, Mr Dashwood... aiee, Toro, Toro, andale, >>> Toro! Vamanos a la Muerte Por La Tarde! >> >> Si, Papa, pero a veces yo tambien soy un toro... Quieres ir >> pescar? :-) > > Non, je ne veux pas pecher, je veux peche. Ah, an Old Man, perhaps? "Yo no soy marinero, soy Capitan, soy Capitan..." :-) > > (sorry, I don't have the patience to reconfigure pico for the high-end > ASCII letters-with-accents character set... attempts in the past have > caused me to stray into the Dreaded Greek Character Zone) No, me neither. Still as it is just whimsy, I don't think it matters... (as long as no-one is offended of course...) > > ('Hoi, Stavros, Alexi, Iannos... we have own Zone now!') :-) That would be a stretch of sand where grown men embrace each other then dance with their hands in the air and fingers snapping, while Melina Mercouri runs to bring them Retsina and similar forms of wood varnish... > > (no wonder dialect humor died) Your attempt made me laugh, thanks. :-) Pete. -- "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
From: Howard Brazee on 20 Apr 2010 09:57
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:05:43 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf(a)panix.com () wrote: >(sorry, I don't have the patience to reconfigure pico for the high-end >ASCII letters-with-accents character set... attempts in the past have >caused me to stray into the Dreaded Greek Character Zone) > >('Hoi, Stavros, Alexi, Iannos... we have own Zone now!') > >(no wonder dialect humor died) I have always had a hard time reading dialect. When someone spells a word to show how someone pronounces it, I have to solve it like a puzzle instead of hear it. To me, a word either gets processed by a compiler the way it expects, or it doesn't. In the real world, we have inflection and innuendo coloring a word's meaning. I am weak at those at well. But my difficulty may lie elsewhere. When I listen to Will Shortz do puzzles on the radio, the hard ones are word scrambles, the easiest ones are the "think outside the box". -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |