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From: Pete Dashwood on 22 Apr 2010 09:49 Alistair wrote: > On Apr 20, 1:23 pm, "Pete Dashwood" > <dashw...(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: >>> Unfortunately, tongues and cheeks do not travel well over the >>> internet. > > How about :-P ? > >> >>> I am sure that racist jokes, too, are very funny, ... to other >>> racists. >> >> Not being a racist, I wouldn't know. >> > > That is like a gray rag to a colour-blind bull. Apparently it is the movement, and not the colour that enrages them. > > I guess that you are older than me and were brought up in the racist > post-war era in GB. I am older than you, but was not brought up in racist post-war GB. Instead I grew up in a place where people of different colour and creed, for the most part got along fine. I had friends at school who were Maori, Indian, Jewish, and one was a Cook Islander. (As well as friends of European descent, of course.) In NZ "white" people are sometimes termed "pakeha" and when I was a child it was not derogatory. It is now politically incorrect to use this term, although you still hear it occasionally. Sadly we are having more racial problems at the moment than we have had in my lifetime. Much of this is being caused by extremists in all camps; the majority of people live and work together happily. I think it will take 70 - 100 years before the melting pot works and people start realizing that people are people, before they are anything else. Patriotism is important (even though it does contribute to the starting of wars), ethnic cultural preservation is important, but MOST important (even more than both of these) is the recognition of Humanity. In general, I really enjoy the diversity and I realize that our country is a much more interesting and colourful place because of the effects of immigrants to it. The food is definitely better :-) Coming back to the theme of Racism, there were two main values my generation had instilled in us: 1. Take people as you find them. Don't pre-judge on hearsay or appearances. In fact, avoid being judgemental at all. If people treat you well and with respect, they are good people. Afford them the same. 2. Everybody deserves a "fair go". It is the Kiwi way. Fight for the "underdog" (it might be you one day). These pieces of advice have served me well in life, across continents and cultures. However, things like decency and duty are uncool and old-fashioned and a new culture is arising that is more "now" and "me"... Racism is really a form of selfishness combined with ignorance. As long as you believe that someone who is "not one of us" is getting a better deal than you are, and that is depriving you of benefits you might otherwise have for yourself, you will feel antagonistic towards that generic group. > I'm 5-(cough) years old and about 20 years ago (in > Doc's golden haze) I heard a radio programme where the commentator > said that any one older than 30 years had to be racist because of the > influences they were exposed to. I hope you don't believe everything you hear from the media, Alistair :-) Thinking people can be exposed to all kinds of influences without necessarily being "contaminated" by them. I have read "Mein Kampf", "The Satanic Verses", Mao Tse Tung's "Little Red Book", and "The New Testament". I'm not a Nazi, a Moslem extremist, a Red Guard or a Christian. (On the other hand, people who DON'T think or question, or who accept the argument from Authority unchallenged, or who "go with the flow" probably WILL be "contaminated" by powerful ideas.) We are living in an Ideological Age. Various ideas and philosophies are contending for our vote. But it is still up to each of us which ones we embrace. > Methinks he was right and the gray- > hairs (or silver-backs if you prefer) are sub-consciously racist even > where they are not overtly so. It is inherent in our evolution that we derived from social animals who lived in groups. And, generally, the groups did not work together, competing instead for available resources. Awareness of "one of us" or "not one of us" is probably still buried in our collective consciousness, but we have come a long way since then. While there are still some people who emulate shrieking chimpanzees when they are angered, that is not all of us. We can recognize and exercise control over inherent bad behaviours, find more constructive outlets, and in doing so, change those behaviours. It may be true that our natural tendency is to be Racist, but we don't have to follow that tendency. We have a choice; learn about and understand people and groups who are "not like us", don't be threatened by them; enjoy the differences. > It seems to be a very difficult learned > pattern to overthrow. I don't find it so. But I never learned that pattern in the first place, and vestigial genetic traces of it have not been stimulated in my life. Like I said, I enjoy diversity. (I s'pose I should add that I have had "non-white" girlfriends as well. One of the best ways to understand another culture is to sleep with it :-)). >Which brings us neatly to WW2. You lost me here. I thought the discussion was about POST-WW2 attitudes. If I missed something, I apologise. > >> >> >>>> I don't think anyone was insulted or derogated (if there is such a >>>> word) > > There is such a word. I checked it out and the context is correct. Thanks :-) It was a lucky guess on my part :-) Pete. -- "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
From: Alistair on 23 Apr 2010 16:06 On Apr 22, 11:39 pm, docdw...(a)panix.com () wrote: > In article <8bd265df-3b40-4a58-b85c-030efa2b6...(a)r1g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, > > Alistair <alist...(a)ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > [snip] > > >I'm 5-(cough) years old and about 20 years ago (in > >Doc's golden haze) I heard a radio programme where the commentator > >said that any one older than 30 years had to be racist because of the > >influences they were exposed to. Methinks he was right and the gray- > >hairs (or silver-backs if you prefer) are sub-consciously racist even > >where they are not overtly so. > > Racist? Pfawgh, not a Chinaman's Chance for that. Perhaps someone who > has less of a Scotsman's Purse might wish to wager otherwise and hope > there's no Welshing involved. > You've got me there. I have two Scotsmans' purses. One is silver with white fur body and black fur tassels and the other is brown leather with brown tassels.
From: Alistair on 23 Apr 2010 16:10 On Apr 23, 7:01 pm, docdw...(a)panix.com () wrote: > In article <2f0f7874-acc6-45cf-b0e4-36a8ac6e0...(a)k33g2000yqc.googlegroups..com>, > > > > > > Alistair <alist...(a)ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >On Apr 22, 11:39?pm, docdw...(a)panix.com () wrote: > >> In article <8bd265df-3b40-4a58-b85c-030efa2b6...(a)r1g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, > > >> Alistair ?<alist...(a)ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > >> [snip] > > >> >I'm 5-(cough) years old and about 20 years ago (in > >> >Doc's golden haze) I heard a radio programme where the commentator > >> >said that any one older than 30 years had to be racist because of the > >> >influences they were exposed to. Methinks he was right and the gray- > >> >hairs (or silver-backs if you prefer) are sub-consciously racist even > >> >where they are not overtly so. > > >> Racist? ?Pfawgh, not a Chinaman's Chance for that. ?Perhaps someone who > >> has less of a Scotsman's Purse might wish to wager otherwise and hope > >> there's no Welshing involved. > > >How can I come back in answer to that one? And don't ask me to do my > >own homework! > > Three retired Brigadiers were having a glass and discussing which of the > varied troops from various parts of The Empire were the best fighters. > > 'I'd have to say the Sikhs,' said the first, 'utter fearless, utterly > ruthless.' > > 'Oh, I'd have to say the Gurkhas,' replied the second, 'as Mankeshaw said, > 'If a man says he is not afraid of dying he is either a liar or a he is a > Gurkha.'' > > The third pondered long and hard before supplying 'Well, I'd have to say > the best fighters of the various Empire troops are the Irish... as long > as they're lead by a white man, of course.' > > (although I heard this long, long before the film was made this sentiment > is promulgated in 'The Commitments', seehttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101605/quotes?qt0310978) > > DD- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I know there is a version of this about accountants and their clients but in my beer-enfuddled state I can't find it.
From: Alistair on 23 Apr 2010 16:12 On Apr 23, 7:12 pm, docdw...(a)panix.com () wrote: > In article <sag3t5lpbevno2nrlufvddhl5li49uq...(a)4ax.com>, > > SkippyPB <swieg...(a)Nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote: > >On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 22:30:26 +0000 (UTC), docdw...(a)panix.com () wrote: > > [snip] > > >>And for anyone interested... it might be interesting to Compare and > >>Contrast Mr Leadbetter's work (previewable at > >><http://www.thecardiffdevils.com/Leadbelly/download-Leadbellys_Last_Se....>) > >>with 'Ain't It Grand to Live A Christian' by Blind Willie McTell > >>(previewable at > >><http://www.rhapsody.com/blind-willie-mctell/statesboro-blues-the-earl....>) > >>and muse over the Musician's Creed of 'hear a lick, steal a lick'. > > >"Hear a lick, steal a lick" -- very true -- just ask Eric Clapton :) > >If it weren't for Willie Dixon and Robert Johnson, there might not be > >any good licks. > > What came to my mind while writing that was Lonnie Johnson's 'To Do This > You Got To Know How', which struck me when I first heard it as 'Every > Standard Lick Strung Together'. > > >Except for those created by Jimmy Hendrix but he was > >in a class of his own and on his own planet. > > In 1966 the treacly 'Born Free' received an Acadamey Award for Best > Original Song and endless, *endless* airplay. > > In 1967 Jimi Hendrix released 'Purple Haze', which struck me on first > hearing as 'This is nigh Stravinsky'. (Stravinsky's music does not please > all ears alike but few deny his place as Someone Who Changed The Way The > World Hears Music.) > > DD Mozart might disagree with you.
From: Alistair on 22 Apr 2010 14:44
On Apr 22, 2:49 pm, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: I'm pleased that you didn't take my comments badly. The radio program I listened to made me think a lot (whilst driving) and I realised that, certainly in GB, the guy was right. > >Which brings us neatly to WW2. > > You lost me here. I thought the discussion was about POST-WW2 attitudes. If > I missed something, I apologise. We are having a general election at the moment. The leader of the Lib- Dems (formerly known as the Liberals) has been criticised for writing an article about how Britain should rethink it's position and attitudes in the light of the fact that we are no longer a first world power but a second world power. We persist in thinking that we (more the English rather than the Welsh, Scots or Irish) single-handedly won WW2. Consequently we have a bigger opinion of ourselves than we deserve and we think that we can make it in the world without the USA and Europe (which we can't) and that is why we won't give up the pound. I have long thought that he is correct. If we were at the heart of Europe rather than always trying to pull away and if we were in the Euro then the mire would not be as deep as it currently is. > > > |