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From: Guenther Schwarz on 16 Aug 2007 14:08
Andreas Stieger wrote:
> On 2007-08-16, Guenther Schwarz <guenther.schwarz(a)gmx.de> wrote:
>> As I can't delete the non-existing source with 'zypper sd 7' I had to do
>> it manually on all machines. What a PITA. The correct URL seems to be:
>> <http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/OpenOffice.org:/STABLE/openSUSE_10.2/>
>
> Well yeah that changed, but that's a build service repository.
> Using this implies you can handle it. ;-) (and know how to delete w/o refresh)

I have no idea how and when that repository was introduced on our
system. But the more severe problem is that instead of simply dying with
an error message zypper behaves nasty in case something is wrong on the
repository servers or simply if one of them is temporarily not
available. This makes our users come to my office complaining about
their machines running slowly with the cooling fan turning like mad ;-)
I'm also missing a simple way to synchronize the update channels on all
machines like the /etc/apt/sources.list on Debian systems. It is slow to
the extreme also. All this makes me want to get rid of zypper. As far as
I can see SuSE simply does not offer an update tool suitable for the
remote administration of more than just a few computers. IMO the weakest
point of this distribution.

G�nther
From: Andreas Stieger on 17 Aug 2007 02:29
Hello,

On 2007-08-16, Guenther Schwarz <guenther.schwarz(a)gmx.de> wrote:
> But the more severe problem is that instead of simply dying with
> an error message zypper behaves nasty in case something is wrong on the
> repository servers or simply if one of them is temporarily not
> available. This makes our users come to my office complaining about
> their machines running slowly with the cooling fan turning like mad ;-)

Please file a bug report about that. I think this issue is being adressed
in 10.3 development, but it always help to get end user scenarios.

> I'm also missing a simple way to synchronize the update channels on all
> machines like the /etc/apt/sources.list on Debian systems.

That would definately be worth filing an improvement bug. I've seen hints,
though...

> It is slow to the extreme also.

That issue has been adressed in 10.3, you may want to check out the beta
to see how it workds out for you.

> All this makes me want to get rid of zypper. As far as
> I can see SuSE simply does not offer an update tool suitable for the
> remote administration of more than just a few computers. IMO the weakest
> point of this distribution.

Well Novell has a product in place for enterprise software management.
As for openSUSE being a community project, feel free to write experiences,
or even contribute code. Anyway with those kind of bugs filed in bugzilla,
as opposed to be lost in off project support, people will take care of this.

kind regards,
Andreas
From: Guenther Schwarz on 17 Aug 2007 10:01
Andreas Stieger wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On 2007-08-16, Guenther Schwarz <guenther.schwarz(a)gmx.de> wrote:
>> But the more severe problem is that instead of simply dying with
>> an error message zypper behaves nasty in case something is wrong on the
>> repository servers or simply if one of them is temporarily not
>> available. This makes our users come to my office complaining about
>> their machines running slowly with the cooling fan turning like mad ;-)
>
> Please file a bug report about that.

Please see below.

>> It is slow to the extreme also.
>
> That issue has been adressed in 10.3, you may want to check out the beta
> to see how it workds out for you.

We just updated to 10.2 a few months ago. We won't do another upgrade
soon. Sorry, but if I want to spend time on testing something, I'd
rather try a Debian based distribution like Kubuntu.

>> All this makes me want to get rid of zypper. As far as
>> I can see SuSE simply does not offer an update tool suitable for the
>> remote administration of more than just a few computers. IMO the weakest
>> point of this distribution.
>
> Well Novell has a product in place for enterprise software management.

? We have OES running. Patching it with rug is a PITA also, sorry.

> As for openSUSE being a community project, feel free to write experiences,
> or even contribute code. Anyway with those kind of bugs filed in bugzilla,
> as opposed to be lost in off project support, people will take care of this.

Novell does not seem to be interested in improvements:
<https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=256514>
(This is basically my problem: zypper not giving up if a channel is not
reachable)
<https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=236360>
<https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=244515>
No useful comments or advice in neither of these entries. Why should I
report a bug if the maintainers are not interested in the user experiences?

Sorry again if this posting appears to be bad tempered and emotional. We
have been running SuSE since 6.0 or something and are basically happy
with it. Otherwise we would have given up a long time ago. But with a
steadily increasing number of systems automatic and remote management of
machines gets more and more important. SuSE is not strong in this
respect releasing buggy update tools and putting emphasis on stand alone
GUI solutions rather than management by shell commands and configuration
files which I can edit or distribute with my configuration engine.

G�nther
From: Niel Lambrechts on 4 Sep 2007 17:36
Guenther Schwarz wrote:

> Sorry again if this posting appears to be bad tempered and emotional. We
> have been running SuSE since 6.0 or something and are basically happy
> with it. Otherwise we would have given up a long time ago. But with a
> steadily increasing number of systems automatic and remote management of
> machines gets more and more important. SuSE is not strong in this
> respect releasing buggy update tools and putting emphasis on stand alone
> GUI solutions rather than management by shell commands and configuration
> files which I can edit or distribute with my configuration engine.

I'm sure many others share this sentiment. SUSE is a great distribution,
but the slowness, poor reliability and complexity of the online update
solution since 10.1 makes switching to another distro a no-brainer in my
opinion. Ubuntu's apt system is just so extremely painless and fast in
comparison.

I am sad to say that I still prefer SUSE in nearly every other respect.

Niel
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