AMD CPUs - 32/64 bit
in [Asus]
|
From: Brianm on 22 Mar 2010 21:22 I'm about to order a custom-built (AMD) computer... Most likely based on the Asus M4A89GTD Pro/USB3. I have a simple question that seems very hard to find the answer to since it's so basic.. Since my last computer buildup back in '02 I haven't kept up with some of the finer points of the newest technology so I'm hoping someone will be kind enough to chime in. The builder offers the AMD Phenom II and Athlon II lines of CPUs... are there 32 *and* 64 bit versions of these CPUs, or does one CPU have support for *both* 32 and 64 bit simultaneously? I know Windows7 comes in 32 and 64-bit versions and the builder offers both, so which version Windows should I ask for? (No need to extol the virtues of 64-bit in general... I'm only asking about the CPUs). TIA!
From: Paul on 22 Mar 2010 23:12 Brianm wrote: > I'm about to order a custom-built (AMD) computer... Most likely based on > the Asus M4A89GTD Pro/USB3. I have a simple question that seems very > hard to find the answer to since it's so basic.. Since my last computer > buildup back in '02 I haven't kept up with some of the finer points of > the newest technology so I'm hoping someone will be kind enough to chime > in. > > The builder offers the AMD Phenom II and Athlon II lines of CPUs... are > there 32 *and* 64 bit versions of these CPUs, or does one CPU have > support for *both* 32 and 64 bit simultaneously? I know Windows7 comes > in 32 and 64-bit versions and the builder offers both, so which version > Windows should I ask for? (No need to extol the virtues of 64-bit in > general... I'm only asking about the CPUs). > > TIA! 64 bit processors currently have both 64 and 32 bit instructions. They support either kind of OS. If you have a 64 bit processor, you can install Win7 32 bit or Win7 64 bit. http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/john-savills-windows-faqs/ q-if-i-m-running-a-64-bit-version-of-windows-do-i-need-64-bit-versions-of- all-my-applications-or-do-i-need-to-use-a-virtual-machine-vm-to-run-a-32-bit-os-.aspx "All 64-bit versions of Windows have, by default, a Windows on Windows (WoW32) subsystem that allows the execution of 32-bit code on the 64-bit OS. I say by default because in Windows Server 2008 R2 Server Core, you can uninstall the WoW32 subsystem. This subsystem allows you to install and execute most 32-bit applications on a 64-bit version of Windows. For example, Microsoft Office is a 32-bit application and runs with no problems on 64-bit editions of Windows Vista and Windows 7. There are some exceptions, however, and certain applications won't run on 64-bit editions of Windows. All device drivers must be digitally signed by the developer for use on 64-bit Windows, and all device drivers must be 64-bit - 32-bit device drivers won't work. If you have hardware that only has 32-bit drivers and a driver isn't provided as part of Windows, then it won't work. You can't run 16-bit applications on a 64-bit OS. If you need to run 16-bit applications on a 64-bit OS, you have to install a virtualization platform such as Virtual PC, create a 32-bit Windows VM, and run the application there. If you're running Windows 7, you can use the XP Mode virtual environment to run 16-bit applications. Another good practice is to install both the 32 and 64-bit versions of most common runtimes, such as SUN Java, VC Redistributables, and video codecs." The "XP mode" option is only available on certain versions of Windows 7. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7 "Windows XP Mode (available on Professional, Ultimate and Enterprise)..." Perhaps you can use something from here, to check whether the gear on your current machine is going to be a problem or not. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/get/upgrade-advisor.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/compare/32-bit-64-bit-faq.aspx HTH, Paul
From: Brianm on 23 Mar 2010 00:01 Paul wrote: > > Brianm wrote: > > I'm about to order a custom-built (AMD) computer... Most likely based on > > the Asus M4A89GTD Pro/USB3. I have a simple question that seems very > > hard to find the answer to since it's so basic.. Since my last computer > > buildup back in '02 I haven't kept up with some of the finer points of > > the newest technology so I'm hoping someone will be kind enough to chime > > in. > > > > The builder offers the AMD Phenom II and Athlon II lines of CPUs... are > > there 32 *and* 64 bit versions of these CPUs, or does one CPU have > > support for *both* 32 and 64 bit simultaneously? I know Windows7 comes > > in 32 and 64-bit versions and the builder offers both, so which version > > Windows should I ask for? (No need to extol the virtues of 64-bit in > > general... I'm only asking about the CPUs). > > > > TIA! > > 64 bit processors currently have both 64 and 32 bit instructions. > They support either kind of OS. So you are saying ALL new processors such as the Phenom II are only ONE type, 64-bit (& supporting 32)? There definitely are NOT separate 32-bit ONLY versions? I'm not as worried about applications, since I know Win7 64-bit supports 32. Thanks for the links but they didn't really talk about processors, except for link 2 seemed to indicate that there are "32-bit processors" separate from "64-bit processors"... true?
From: Paul on 23 Mar 2010 01:32 Brianm wrote: > Paul wrote: >> Brianm wrote: >>> I'm about to order a custom-built (AMD) computer... Most likely based on >>> the Asus M4A89GTD Pro/USB3. I have a simple question that seems very >>> hard to find the answer to since it's so basic.. Since my last computer >>> buildup back in '02 I haven't kept up with some of the finer points of >>> the newest technology so I'm hoping someone will be kind enough to chime >>> in. >>> >>> The builder offers the AMD Phenom II and Athlon II lines of CPUs... are >>> there 32 *and* 64 bit versions of these CPUs, or does one CPU have >>> support for *both* 32 and 64 bit simultaneously? I know Windows7 comes >>> in 32 and 64-bit versions and the builder offers both, so which version >>> Windows should I ask for? (No need to extol the virtues of 64-bit in >>> general... I'm only asking about the CPUs). >>> >>> TIA! >> 64 bit processors currently have both 64 and 32 bit instructions. >> They support either kind of OS. > > > So you are saying ALL new processors such as the Phenom II are only ONE > type, 64-bit (& supporting 32)? There definitely are NOT separate > 32-bit ONLY versions? I'm not as worried about applications, since I > know Win7 64-bit supports 32. > > Thanks for the links but they didn't really talk about processors, > except for link 2 seemed to indicate that there are "32-bit processors" > separate from "64-bit processors"... true? If the machine is being built by a system builder, and you're getting a DVD from Microsoft as part of the package, you might be getting both versions on the DVD. That would allow you to install either version when you want to. One benefit of getting someone to build a machine for you, is you get a real DVD with it. http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Windows-7-Home-Premium-Upgrade/product/B0F9E641 "This product includes both 32- and 64-bit versions." Also, when someone builds a machine for you, they should throw in the motherboard box, complete with driver CD. If the OS is missing any drivers, that CD is the one you want. With all the CDs and DVDs in your hand, that would allow you to do a reinstall at a future date. ******* I'm saying it would be pretty hard to find a 32 bit only AMD processor, new from the store, today. The last 32 bit only processors, might have been some Semprons. That might have been back in the S754/S939 era, rather than AM2. In the S754/S939 era, most of the processors were 64 bit as far as I know, with only some weird low end models that were 32 bit. Just as there were some low end processors that didn't support Cool N' Quiet. Example of a "Sempron 64" that doesn't support X86-64 :-) Now, why they'd spin something this goofy, escapes me. It's not like having defective cache, and disabling a portion of it. http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K8/AMD-Sempron%203000+%20-%20SDA3000AIP2AX.html The operative term in this article, is "AMD64". That happens to be the branding at the moment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenom_II If you look on the Intel pages, they denote it as "EM64T". http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB9L The architecture is also termed X86-64, to cover the 64 bit extensions to the instruction set. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64 In terms of older processors, I have an AthlonXP 32 bit only processor, as well as a Pentium 4 32 bit only processor. Those would be examples of processors that can only use something like Windows 7 32 bit. ******* Another point. It is possible for a 32 bit OS, to address more than 4GB of memory. The technology is called PAE, and was invented a long time ago. But Microsoft artificially restricts some of their 32 bit OSes to 4GB of memory, which means PAE won't help. In terms of hardware, PAE maps 32 bit virtual addresses to 36 bit (or more) physical addresses. That means, if I start a program, it could choose a 4GB section of the entire physical memory. I would need to use multiple programs, if I wanted to use all the memory at the same time. Using a 64 bit OS and a 64 bit executable version of a program, I can address the entire 16GB if I want. So PAE is clever, but isn't quite as useful as a pure 64 bit environment. Current processors still might not address the entire 64 bit address space. The AMD processor, for example, uses 40 bit addresses. Which is plenty, and enough to access any possible set of DIMMs you could plug into the memory slots. So they don't necessarily make all the wiring in a processor "64 bits" on a 64 bit processor. Some aspects of 64-bit-ism are not completely fleshed out. They only put as much of it in there, as can possibly be used. I expect the reason they even went as far as 40 bits, is to handle multi-socket server machines, and the ability to use NUMA access to the other processors and their memory. Paul
From: Skipai Otter on 24 Mar 2010 10:35
"Brianm" <idontthinkso(a)spammersdie.com> wrote in message news:4BA83CFE.74693F4D(a)spammersdie.com... > Paul wrote: >> >> Brianm wrote: >> > I'm about to order a custom-built (AMD) computer... Most likely based >> > on >> > the Asus M4A89GTD Pro/USB3. I have a simple question that seems very >> > hard to find the answer to since it's so basic.. Since my last >> > computer >> > buildup back in '02 I haven't kept up with some of the finer points of >> > the newest technology so I'm hoping someone will be kind enough to >> > chime >> > in. >> > >> > The builder offers the AMD Phenom II and Athlon II lines of CPUs... are >> > there 32 *and* 64 bit versions of these CPUs, or does one CPU have >> > support for *both* 32 and 64 bit simultaneously? I know Windows7 comes >> > in 32 and 64-bit versions and the builder offers both, so which version >> > Windows should I ask for? (No need to extol the virtues of 64-bit in >> > general... I'm only asking about the CPUs). >> > >> > TIA! >> >> 64 bit processors currently have both 64 and 32 bit instructions. >> They support either kind of OS. > > > So you are saying ALL new processors such as the Phenom II are only ONE > type, 64-bit (& supporting 32)? There definitely are NOT separate > 32-bit ONLY versions? I'm not as worried about applications, since I > know Win7 64-bit supports 32. Yeah, they will run 64bit or 32bit no problem. I had been running my 64bit AMD64x2 6000+ on a 32bit OS (win-xp) for ages until I moved to 64bit Win 7. The only thing you may have problems with is that 64bit windows of any version won't support or run 16bit software now, not directly so pretty makes any programs that uses dos in any form during an installation not work. Which I found out when I tried to install Hotmetal 4.0, windows 7 didn't like the 16bit installer which was weird as isn't hotmetal a 32bit windows application? Must've been one of those weird 16 to 32bit eras back then. > Thanks for the links but they didn't really talk about processors, > except for link 2 seemed to indicate that there are "32-bit processors" > separate from "64-bit processors"... true? As long as it's a AM2/AM2+ and AM3 system board then it be 64bit with 32bit compatility so it will work in either mode. -- Skipai |