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From: Schmidt on 20 Jan 2009 15:48 "Mike Williams" <Mike(a)WhiskyAndCoke.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:%23T5N6%23xeJHA.5820(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > "Schmidt" <sss(a)online.de> wrote in message > news:uSaML$veJHA.3776(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > > > Wondering a bit, why Bill is telling us, that this is > > a big disadvantage - one who has decided to use > > one of the managed frameworks like Java or .NET > > should avoid using the System-APIs - that's why > > these libs are so huge - they already encapsulate > > most of the system-apis in a platform-independent > > way > > Because McCarthy is a trouble maker. His main aim > is to destroy this group and in the meantime to annoy > as many people as he can. He is a troll. That's a known fact here in the meantime I'd think ... (hint, hint...;-)) Just tried to cleanup his wrong statements for the archives. Jabaco is nice (and a very "young" project) - and it does not deserve such "tick off" in this early (though already usable) stage. With the Win7-Support for VB- Classic, we have time enough now to decide without haste to what new platform we jump to - and Jabaco will evolve over time - as well as the other alternatives as for example KBasic, which is also a OneMan-show yet, but should get a larger boost, because one of the main obstacles for many potential users was the somewhat "weird" QT-license, which for professional development always was requiring a larger amount of money - and this will change now: http://www.kbasic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=262 A new version was released only one week ago: http://www.kbasic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=261 And what he's saying there, that he wants to reintegrate KBasic back into the new QT4-based KDE4-environment "officially", could give the project another push (and the K- Desktop-Environment as well of course, since many devs were standing back from KDevelop and the 'K'-Apps on Linux, mostly because of the QT-license - and then oriented to Gnome and the GTK+-based environment which was always under LGPL - so that small announcement from Nokia will have a huge impact also regarding the future and the development-speed of the Linux- and Unix- Desktops - that's for sure (KDE4, meaning more or less the whole Desktop-Environment will also be available on Windows soon - there are already some Alpha- and Beta-attempts). Olaf
From: "Bill McCarthy" TPASoft.com Are Identity on 20 Jan 2009 20:42 "Ken Halter" <Ken_Halter(a)Use_Sparingly_Hotmail.com> wrote in message news:%237OwuMseJHA.5748(a)TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > "Bill McCarthy" <TPASoft.com Are Identity Thieves> wrote in message > news:uAGCGQqeJHA.2132(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> >> >> Uh huh. Guess you still don't get the meaning of unbiased. "Unbiased" , >> Ken, would be looking at the facts around Jabaco, and in particular the >> serious limitations of it. The personal attacks you've resorted to, and > > boo-freaking-hoo Mr Bill... report me, there baby-boy! "personal attacks" > over the internet. LOL! boo-hoo - boo-hoo.... Q.E.D. > >> support for COM interop, windows API calls or type libraries nor existing >> from models, and it is a very limited approach to programming against the >> Java platform. If your goal is to program for Java, then there's lots of >> powerful tools out there, but not Jabaco. > > Buh-bye Billy boy... more pointless drooling coming from that hole in your > face. Did you try the product? Come on now... you must've installed and > tested its abilities... otherwise, how can you possibly flame me for not > trying it? More pot/kettle (leaning to the pot side) I see. > LOL. Breathe Ken, breathe. It's *obvious* to any *sane* person I must have tried the product, that's why I could tell you the things it is missing such as Debug, Debug.Print, numerous properties from forms, the whole COM interop thing, the lack of determinalistic finalization or for that matter any finalization at all for classes. I suggest rather than you blather based on your lack of knowledge of the product, you actually take the time to give it a test run. It really doesn't take long to fire up a VPC install it and test it. You seem to have wasted more time here already than it would take to do so.
From: "Bill McCarthy" TPASoft.com Are Identity on 20 Jan 2009 20:45 Hi Henning, "Henning" <computer_hero(a)coldmail.com> wrote in message news:4975c001$0$12243$57c3e1d3(a)news3.bahnhof.se... > > "Bill McCarthy" <TPASoft.com Are Identity Thieves> skrev i meddelandet > news:%238h$r9ceJHA.3692(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> >> "Ken Halter" <Ken_Halter(a)Use_Sparingly_Hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:OKNRBetdJHA.5344(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> >>> Holy smokes! An unbiased opinion! Say it ain't so! >> >> "Unbiased" is when you look at the facts Ken, not when you post a link to >> some software you haven't even tried and then tack on a heap of anti >> Microsoft nonsense claiming the current global credit squeeze is due to >> Microsoft <unbelievable/> >> >> I suggest you actually look at Jabaco. You will find it is a poor VB >> implementation on top of Java. There's not even a Debug.Print. form's >> are missing dozens of properties and because it is based on swing, there >> isn't even a form's hWnd. You cannot use API of any king, no type >> libraries, no COM components. And again, because it is based on Java, >> you've got that GC object model lifetime issues (lack of determinalistic >> finalization). Rather than expose that, they just cut out the Terminate >> event entirely from the class modules. It's totally lame. >> If you want to code against Java, use Java. You'll find there's lots of >> tools, support, samples etc. > > I've tried it a bit with an existing app. It isn't *that* bad, and you > have to concider it's still in beta stage. If you wish you can call any > Java function directly. > > Give Manuel a little time to at least pass bata before judging. > Well we can only judge by what is there. If Manual's intentions are to support more VB6 features he should say that. In fact, a write up of what language features he is and isn't supporting would be a really good thing to get people interested, otherwise it's impossible to tell if it is just taking the low hanging fruit and not going to address the more significant/difficult issues.
From: "Bill McCarthy" TPASoft.com Are Identity on 20 Jan 2009 21:00 "Schmidt" <sss(a)online.de> wrote in message news:uSaML$veJHA.3776(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > > "Henning" <computer_hero(a)coldmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag > news:4975c001$0$12243$57c3e1d3(a)news3.bahnhof.se... > >> Give Manuel a little time to at least pass bata before judging. > Yep - and at least regarding the WinAPI-Calls (which Mr. > McCarthy is trying to tell us, will not be reachable): > > Jabaco allows that, because it integrates a JNI-wrapper > (JNI is something like the .NET-pendant for P/Invokes - > it offers to work in an "unmanaged" way, allowing calls to > external Libraries which are not written in Java, also on > the Windows-Platform). > Where does it "integrate" a JNI-wrapper ? I tried declare statements : not supported. Type libraries: not supported. I would have expected it to do a JNA (not JNI) wrapper for Declares but it does not. JNI is very different from P/Invoke in .NET. JNI requires native assemblies (written in C/C++ etc) that provide a shim. P/Invoke in .NET is a highly flexible declarative syntax that you write using .NET, and most importantly is also provides for com interop: both consuming COM objects and having COM consume .NET objects. > Wondering a bit, why Bill is telling us, that this is a big > disadvantage The half dozen or so features I listed, those which I noticed within minutes of trying out Jabaco, are pretty much show stoppers for any porting of any serious VB6 app, not that there is even a porting tool. So in terms of the original posters question of looking for something which he can apply his VB6 knowledge, Vb .NET is a hundred fold better. - one who has decided to use one of the > managed frameworks like Java or .NET should avoid > using the System-APIs - that's why these libs are so huge - Then why is there JNI or P/Invoke ? > they already encapsulate most of the system-apis in a > platform-independent way (Ok, at least Java and Mono > take this task - platform-independency - seriously). > Never the less they don't encapsulate everything, and unless you have something that translates all our existing VB6 code to whatever does encapsulate what ever API you are using in the way you were using it, then this lack of support is a huge hurdle to using existing VB code. The win API calls of course is just one of the many issues. The lack of support for COM interop is probably even more significant. It's not like you can write a control in Jabaco and then use that on your VB6 forms.
From: Frank on 20 Jan 2009 22:33
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:00:03 +1100, "Bill McCarthy" <TPASoft.com Are Identity Thieves> wrote mostly bull**it): in <eRgsew2eJHA.3776(a)TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl> > >Never the less they don't encapsulate everything, and unless you have >something that translates all our existing VB6 code to whatever does >encapsulate what ever API you are using in the way you were using it, then >this lack of support is a huge hurdle to using existing VB code. > >The win API calls of course is just one of the many issues. The lack of >support for COM interop is probably even more significant. It's not like >you can write a control in Jabaco and then use that on your VB6 forms. Yes, Billy McBarfy. These are obstacles purposely erected by Microsoft to short circuit all attempts at interoperability. This community is not comprised of idiots like yourself. Most of the individuals in this forum can think for themselves and are well aware of the games Microsoft plays and the extent Microsoft is willing to go to thwart all attempts at interoperability. Thanks for pointing that out. And please cease and desist with your personal attacks. They are really unbecoming of a Microsoft representative such as yourself and you are giving Microsoft a really big black eye with your despicable behavior and random personal attacks. Frank |