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From: Neil Ellwood on 15 Jul 2010 12:37
On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:23:45 +0100, Whiskers wrote:

> On 2010-07-14, Alec Ross <alec(a)arlross.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> I recently tried and failed to install a dual-boot of the above.
>>
>> IIRC if I install Ubuntu first, I can shrink its partition during the
>> Fedora installation, but a subsequent boot will go directly into
>> Fedora. (IIRC a message at the end of the Fedora install indicated
>> writing of a boot loader, rather than updating a file.)
>>
>> If I install Fedora first, the Ubuntu install does not recognise the
>> presence of that OS.
>>
>> I suspect the pb(s) lie in grub2/grub issue(s), and/or filesystem
>> differences. Can anyone give advice on this; and ideally detailed
>> suggestions for recommended route(s) to achieve the dual-boot.
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Alec
>
> You are probably replacing the boot loader in the hard disc's MBR with
> the one intended for whichever OS you installed most recently.
>
> The easiest way to handle dual-booting is to put a 'boot manager' in the
> MBR and then put the boot loader for each OS into the / or /boot
> partition of that OS. It is possible to use Grub or LiLo as a 'boot
> manager', but I think a stand-alone program is better - I like GAG
> <http://gag.sourceforge.net/>. SmartBootManager is good too
> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/btmgr/>. I haven't used any others.

If you installed fedora last when you boot up normally press a key before
fedora starts to load and choose which op systems you want to use with the
arrow keys then press enter.

Works for me.



--
Neil
Reverse 'r*a' and delete 'l'
Linux user 335851
From: Martin Gregorie on 15 Jul 2010 12:53
On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:37:11 -0500, Neil Ellwood wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:23:45 +0100, Whiskers wrote:
>
>> On 2010-07-14, Alec Ross <alec(a)arlross.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I recently tried and failed to install a dual-boot of the above.
>>>
>>> IIRC if I install Ubuntu first, I can shrink its partition during the
>>> Fedora installation, but a subsequent boot will go directly into
>>> Fedora. (IIRC a message at the end of the Fedora install indicated
>>> writing of a boot loader, rather than updating a file.)
>>>
>>> If I install Fedora first, the Ubuntu install does not recognise the
>>> presence of that OS.
>>>
>>> I suspect the pb(s) lie in grub2/grub issue(s), and/or filesystem
>>> differences. Can anyone give advice on this; and ideally detailed
>>> suggestions for recommended route(s) to achieve the dual-boot.
>>>
>>> TIA
>>>
>>> Alec
>>
>> You are probably replacing the boot loader in the hard disc's MBR with
>> the one intended for whichever OS you installed most recently.
>>
>> The easiest way to handle dual-booting is to put a 'boot manager' in
>> the MBR and then put the boot loader for each OS into the / or /boot
>> partition of that OS. It is possible to use Grub or LiLo as a 'boot
>> manager', but I think a stand-alone program is better - I like GAG
>> <http://gag.sourceforge.net/>. SmartBootManager is good too
>> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/btmgr/>. I haven't used any others.
>
> If you installed fedora last when you boot up normally press a key
> before fedora starts to load and choose which op systems you want to use
> with the arrow keys then press enter.
>
Even easier:

Edit /boot/grub/grub.conf. Comment out the hiddenmenu line and add

timeout=5

on the previous line. Now you'll see the boot menu for 5 secs - plenty of
time to select a non-default kernel/os to boot.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
From: Alec Ross on 16 Jul 2010 06:30
....
>>
>> The easiest way to handle dual-booting is to put a 'boot manager' in the
>> MBR and then put the boot loader for each OS into the / or /boot
>> partition of that OS. It is possible to use Grub or LiLo as a 'boot
>> manager', but I think a stand-alone program is better - I like GAG
>> <http://gag.sourceforge.net/>. SmartBootManager is good too
>> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/btmgr/>. I haven't used any others.
>
>If you installed fedora last when you boot up normally press a key before
>fedora starts to load and choose which op systems you want to use with the
>arrow keys then press enter.
>
>Works for me.
>

Thanks, Neil.
--
Alec Ross
From: Alec Ross on 16 Jul 2010 06:33
In message <i1nedf$on9$1(a)localhost.localdomain>, Martin Gregorie
<martin(a)address-in-sig.invalid> writes
>On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:37:11 -0500, Neil Ellwood wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:23:45 +0100, Whiskers wrote:
>>
>>> On 2010-07-14, Alec Ross <alec(a)arlross.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> I recently tried and failed to install a dual-boot of the above.
>>>>
>>>> IIRC if I install Ubuntu first, I can shrink its partition during the
>>>> Fedora installation, but a subsequent boot will go directly into
>>>> Fedora. (IIRC a message at the end of the Fedora install indicated
>>>> writing of a boot loader, rather than updating a file.)
>>>>
>>>> If I install Fedora first, the Ubuntu install does not recognise the
>>>> presence of that OS.
>>>>
>>>> I suspect the pb(s) lie in grub2/grub issue(s), and/or filesystem
>>>> differences. Can anyone give advice on this; and ideally detailed
>>>> suggestions for recommended route(s) to achieve the dual-boot.
>>>>
>>>> TIA
>>>>
>>>> Alec
>>>
>>> You are probably replacing the boot loader in the hard disc's MBR with
>>> the one intended for whichever OS you installed most recently.
>>>
>>> The easiest way to handle dual-booting is to put a 'boot manager' in
>>> the MBR and then put the boot loader for each OS into the / or /boot
>>> partition of that OS. It is possible to use Grub or LiLo as a 'boot
>>> manager', but I think a stand-alone program is better - I like GAG
>>> <http://gag.sourceforge.net/>. SmartBootManager is good too
>>> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/btmgr/>. I haven't used any others.
>>
>> If you installed fedora last when you boot up normally press a key
>> before fedora starts to load and choose which op systems you want to use
>> with the arrow keys then press enter.
>>
>Even easier:
>
>Edit /boot/grub/grub.conf. Comment out the hiddenmenu line and add
>
> timeout=5
>
>on the previous line. Now you'll see the boot menu for 5 secs - plenty of
>time to select a non-default kernel/os to boot.
>
>

Thanks, Martin. This is the sort of thing I was hoping for. Does this
depend on the order of os installation? i.e. I'm, concerned that if
Ubuntu were installed first, then the Fedora install would have left
it, and its boot/grub/grub.conf, into a partition not simply and
directly accessible for edit by a booted Fedora. And if Ubuntu were
installed second, it would not see the Fedora, and overwrite it as
mentioned before. Am I missing something here?

TIA

Alec
--
Alec Ross
From: Martin Gregorie on 16 Jul 2010 12:24
On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:33:08 +0100, Alec Ross wrote:

> In message <i1nedf$on9$1(a)localhost.localdomain>, Martin Gregorie
> <martin(a)address-in-sig.invalid> writes
>>On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:37:11 -0500, Neil Ellwood wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:23:45 +0100, Whiskers wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2010-07-14, Alec Ross <alec(a)arlross.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> I recently tried and failed to install a dual-boot of the above.
>>>>>
>>>>> IIRC if I install Ubuntu first, I can shrink its partition during
>>>>> the Fedora installation, but a subsequent boot will go directly into
>>>>> Fedora. (IIRC a message at the end of the Fedora install indicated
>>>>> writing of a boot loader, rather than updating a file.)
>>>>>
>>>>> If I install Fedora first, the Ubuntu install does not recognise the
>>>>> presence of that OS.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect the pb(s) lie in grub2/grub issue(s), and/or filesystem
>>>>> differences. Can anyone give advice on this; and ideally detailed
>>>>> suggestions for recommended route(s) to achieve the dual-boot.
>>>>>
>>>>> TIA
>>>>>
>>>>> Alec
>>>>
>>>> You are probably replacing the boot loader in the hard disc's MBR
>>>> with the one intended for whichever OS you installed most recently.
>>>>
>>>> The easiest way to handle dual-booting is to put a 'boot manager' in
>>>> the MBR and then put the boot loader for each OS into the / or /boot
>>>> partition of that OS. It is possible to use Grub or LiLo as a 'boot
>>>> manager', but I think a stand-alone program is better - I like GAG
>>>> <http://gag.sourceforge.net/>. SmartBootManager is good too
>>>> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/btmgr/>. I haven't used any others.
>>>
>>> If you installed fedora last when you boot up normally press a key
>>> before fedora starts to load and choose which op systems you want to
>>> use with the arrow keys then press enter.
>>>
>>Even easier:
>>
>>Edit /boot/grub/grub.conf. Comment out the hiddenmenu line and add
>>
>> timeout=5
>>
>>on the previous line. Now you'll see the boot menu for 5 secs - plenty
>>of time to select a non-default kernel/os to boot.
>>
>>
>>
> Thanks, Martin. This is the sort of thing I was hoping for. Does this
> depend on the order of os installation? i.e. I'm, concerned that if
> Ubuntu were installed first, then the Fedora install would have left
> it, and its boot/grub/grub.conf, into a partition not simply and
> directly accessible for edit by a booted Fedora.
>
Does either installer offer you the option of using a pre-installed copy
of GRUB? If so, I'd install that distro last, tell it not to install
GRUB, and hope that it would configure the first installed Grub by adding
its menu item to that - if it didn't then its easy to boot into distro A
and edit a menu line in for the second distro.

If neither offers you that option I'd expect that the last installed
distro wins, so boot into it and edit its Grub menu to add a line for the
first installed distro.

If I sound a bit vague, its because I don't usually use dual boot, but
when I have, its so fat always been a Linux/Windows dual, set up so that
Grub always wins and can chain boot Windows. This means that 'doze *must*
be installed first on the only active partition. Then you put Linux
elsewhere, modify the boot sector to start Grub, and modify Grub by
adding the chain boot menu item needed to start Windows.

The one gotcha I see with a dual Linux boot set-up is what the updater
does to grub.conf when it installs a new kernel. IIRC its bright enough
to recognise a Windows menu line and ignore it, but I don't know if it
can decide which is 'its' boot menu lines and only rearrange them. Nor do
I know what happens when the kernel gets replaced in the distro that
doesn't own the active Grub.

I'd also recommend that you follow the Grub manual to install a copy on a
removable boot medium (preferably not a CD because you'll probably want
to edit it) and set this one up so it prompts for boot parameters and
executes what you type. Its manual should tell you how. This is not only
a useful 'get out of gaol free' card, but will let you experiment with
grub commands and get them right before you start changing boot menus.

***Warning: AFAIK GRUB still uses BIOS disk services to access the disks
its booting from, so if you're doing this on an old machine, make sure
that:
- none of the installed disks are bigger than the BIOS can handle
- you've put both boot partitions where the BIOS can find them

or one or more of the Linuxes will fail to boot. The Linux installer
doesn't use the BIOS once its been booted so it isn't affected by these
limitations - hence it can and will install Linux in places where the
BIOS may be unable to boot it. I got scars from this many years ago when
trying to make a dual Linux/Win95 system on a box with an AMI BIOS that
couldn't handle disks bigger than 6.3 GB - and I was trying to leave
Win95 on the original disk and put Fedora on a second 30 GB disk - I
ended up getting a second 6.3GB used disk off eBay.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
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