File Sharing
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From: Boris on 3 Mar 2010 19:33 I rarely move/copy files across networks, so I'm not that familiar with file sharing 'rules'. Long ago, I used to use NetBEUI and a hub <g>. Yesterday I needed to move about 10GB of files from one machine A (XP Pro) to machine B (XP). I have a wireless router with SSID "codenine". Machine A connects to codenine wirelessly, and macnine B is hardwired to the router. Once I changed the workgroup setting on both machines to "codenine", we could see each other. Then I set up sharing. I thought that if on machine A, I set C:\ to share, I'd be able to see all of the folders on machine A, from machine B. I mean ALL the folders (and files on partition C, not just the folders/files one level down. But that wasn't the case. I could see certain folders, but not all. What I wanted to see was all of the folders in Documents and Settings\My Documents, such as My Music, My Pictures, etc, but I couldn't by just sharing C:\. I had to set sharing on My Documents and Settings. Microsoft tells me: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/304040 "Through the Simple File Sharing UI, you can configure both share and NTFS file system permissions at the folder level. These permissions apply to the folder, all the files in that folder, subfolders, and all the files in the subfolders." This seems to be inconsistent with what I experienced. What am I doing wrong or misunderstanding? Thanks.
From: John Wunderlich on 3 Mar 2010 23:33 Boris <nospam(a)nospam.com> wrote in news:Xns9D30A86008C11blahblahcom(a)188.40.43.213: > I rarely move/copy files across networks, so I'm not that familiar > with file sharing 'rules'. Long ago, I used to use NetBEUI and a > hub <g>. > > Yesterday I needed to move about 10GB of files from one machine A > (XP Pro) to machine B (XP). What is more important here is whether "Simple File Sharing" is enabled or disabled. Assuming machine B is XP-Home, then simple file sharing is Enabled by policy. Since machine A is XP Pro, double-click any folder, then Tools->Folder Options->View. Simple File Sharing will be the last item on the list. >[...] > > I thought that if on machine A, I set C:\ to share, I'd be able to > see all of the folders on machine A, from machine B. I mean ALL > the folders (and files on partition C, not just the folders/files > one level down. But that wasn't the case. This could be a true statement *if* Simple File Sharing is Disabled on machine A. In which case, you authenticate to the server by username and password and then have rights on machine A as if you were that user on that machine. > I could see certain folders, but not all. What I wanted to see > was all of the folders in Documents and Settings\My Documents, > such as My Music, My Pictures, etc, but I couldn't by just sharing > C:\. I had to set sharing on My Documents and Settings. > > Microsoft tells me: > "How to configure file sharing in Windows XP" > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/304040 > > "Through the Simple File Sharing UI, you can configure both share > and NTFS file system permissions at the folder level. These > permissions apply to the folder, all the files in that folder, > subfolders, and all the files in the subfolders." > > This seems to be inconsistent with what I experienced. You just didn't read far enough. With Simple File Sharing Enabled, every network-connected user authenticates as the user "Guest" on the file serving system. The table below "Managing levels of access to shares and to files" indicates that "Everyone (Share)" (which is what the "Guest" user is), can only access Level 4 and Level 5 files/folders. Then it goes on to say: "By default, files that are stored in "My Documents" are at Level 2". So a Guest user cannot access any files or folders directly in the "My Documents" folder. As soon as any file/folder not at level 4 or 5 is reached, access will be denied. This also applies to the Windows folder and Program Files folders. Recommendation: Disable Simple File Sharing on machine A and create identical username / password logins on both machines. Then, if you share the C: drive on machine A, you will have access to all files accessible by your username from machine B. "How to disable simple file sharing and how to set permissions on a shared folder in Windows XP" <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307874> HTH, John
From: Boris on 4 Mar 2010 10:27 John Wunderlich <jwunderlich(a)lycos.com> wrote in news:Xns9D30D11FD84CEwunderpsdrscray(a)207.46.248.16: > Boris <nospam(a)nospam.com> wrote in > news:Xns9D30A86008C11blahblahcom(a)188.40.43.213: > >> I rarely move/copy files across networks, so I'm not that familiar >> with file sharing 'rules'. Long ago, I used to use NetBEUI and a >> hub <g>. >> >> Yesterday I needed to move about 10GB of files from one machine A >> (XP Pro) to machine B (XP). > > What is more important here is whether "Simple File Sharing" is enabled > or disabled. Assuming machine B is XP-Home, then simple file sharing > is Enabled by policy. Since machine A is XP Pro, double-click any > folder, then Tools->Folder Options->View. Simple File Sharing will be > the last item on the list. > >>[...] >> >> I thought that if on machine A, I set C:\ to share, I'd be able to >> see all of the folders on machine A, from machine B. I mean ALL >> the folders (and files on partition C, not just the folders/files >> one level down. But that wasn't the case. > > This could be a true statement *if* Simple File Sharing is Disabled on > machine A. In which case, you authenticate to the server by username > and password and then have rights on machine A as if you were that user > on that machine. > >> I could see certain folders, but not all. What I wanted to see >> was all of the folders in Documents and Settings\My Documents, >> such as My Music, My Pictures, etc, but I couldn't by just sharing >> C:\. I had to set sharing on My Documents and Settings. >> >> Microsoft tells me: >> "How to configure file sharing in Windows XP" >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/304040 >> >> "Through the Simple File Sharing UI, you can configure both share >> and NTFS file system permissions at the folder level. These >> permissions apply to the folder, all the files in that folder, >> subfolders, and all the files in the subfolders." >> >> This seems to be inconsistent with what I experienced. > > You just didn't read far enough. With Simple File Sharing Enabled, > every network-connected user authenticates as the user "Guest" on the > file serving system. The table below "Managing levels of access to > shares and to files" indicates that "Everyone (Share)" (which is what > the "Guest" user is), can only access Level 4 and Level 5 > files/folders. Then it goes on to say: > "By default, files that are stored in "My Documents" are at Level 2". > So a Guest user cannot access any files or folders directly in the "My > Documents" folder. As soon as any file/folder not at level 4 or 5 is > reached, access will be denied. This also applies to the Windows > folder and Program Files folders. > > Recommendation: Disable Simple File Sharing on machine A and create > identical username / password logins on both machines. Then, if you > share the C: drive on machine A, you will have access to all files > accessible by your username from machine B. > > "How to disable simple file sharing and how to set permissions on a > shared folder in Windows XP" > <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307874> > > > HTH, > John > > > Yes, that was very helpful. And you're right, I just didn't read far enough, esp. re: Simple File Sharing. Both machines have, by default I guess, have an Administrator account, and a Guest account. I am the only user on both, and my user name on both is "Dad". When I start up either machine, I'm never asked for a user name or password. Once the desktop comes up on either machine, if I click Start, I see "Dad" in the upper left side of the pop up Start menu. On the XP Pro machine A, once the screen saver comes on, when I shake the mouse (or hit any key) to get back to my desktop, I'm presented with the Dad icon, and all I have to do is hit the Enter key to get back to my desktop. On the XP Home machine B, once the screen saver comes on, when I shake the mouse (or hit any key) to get back to my desktop, I get right back to my desktop. Question...What I'm saying is that I have no passwords set up. Do I need to set up passwords to accomplish what you've laid out, or am I ok, since each machine can see the other on the network, and all I need to do at this point is to follow file sharing set up rules? Thanks again.
From: RB on 4 Mar 2010 21:57 > Recommendation: Disable Simple File Sharing on machine A and create > identical username / password logins on both machines. Then, if you > share the C: drive on machine A, you will have access to all files > accessible by your username from machine B. Hmmm that is an interesting scenario. I may try and see how that works on my confused laptop. I had recently had set logon passwords on my desktop and laptop in an effort to gain better lan shared security. It worked great going from my desktop to my laptop, asks for my password when I try to access a share just like clockwork. However if I try to access the desktop on my laptop it baulks and gives an Access Denied msg. Have not ever been able to figure out why. Maybe I will try the same identical user/pswd thing and see.
From: John Wunderlich on 5 Mar 2010 01:34
Boris <nospam(a)nospam.com> wrote in news:Xns9D314BE3A6EB6blahblahcom(a)188.40.43.213: > Both machines have, by default I guess, have an Administrator > account, and a Guest account. I am the only user on both, and my > user name on both is "Dad". When I start up either machine, I'm > never asked for a user name or password. Once the desktop comes > up on either machine, if I click Start, I see "Dad" in the upper > left side of the pop up Start menu. > > On the XP Pro machine A, once the screen saver comes on, when I > shake the mouse (or hit any key) to get back to my desktop, I'm > presented with the Dad icon, and all I have to do is hit the Enter > key to get back to my desktop. On the XP Home machine B, once the > screen saver comes on, when I shake the mouse (or hit any key) to > get back to my desktop, I get right back to my desktop. > > Question...What I'm saying is that I have no passwords set up. Do > I need to set up passwords to accomplish what you've laid out, or > am I ok, since each machine can see the other on the network, and > all I need to do at this point is to follow file sharing set up > rules? > With Simple File Sharing disabled, authentication when connecting to a remote server goes something like this: If a user name exists on the remote machine that matches the currently logged-in username on the local machine, then if the passwords are the same you are granted access on the remote machine as that user. If the passwords are different, then you are denied access. If there is no username on the remote machine that matches the local logged-in username, then a dialog is displayed requesting a username and password that is recognized on the remote server. Somewhere I remember reading that Administrator access is not permitted with a blank password in a Domain environment. I'm not sure if this applies to the at-home more common Workgroup environment. I would guess that "Dad" accounts on both machines with blank passwords should work. If blank passwords on both machines work and you are OK with that, then stick with it. As an alternative, you can assign a user password that is the same on both machines and use "TweakUI" to set up "Autologon" with that password on both machines if you prefer not to enter a password. HTH, John |