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From: Michael Dobony on 7 Feb 2010 23:34
On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:19:04 -0500, DanielleOM wrote:

> When I watch a friend mix I find I see all of the mixer frequency settings
> turned down to about the same spot at 9 o'clock.
>
> This seems counter intuitive to me. I keep thinking this is like just
> turning the levels down since all seem to be turned almost equally. I
> normally keep them at 12 o'clock with very minor tweaks in one direction or
> the other.
>
> Am I missing something here?
>
>
> Danielle

Listen to Liquidator and Geoff. Your description reminds me of something I
heard here, "I know what the EQ should look like." The EQ is not for looks,
but for sound. Each band (frequency) must be individually tuned according
to the input, the speakers, and the room.

Putting all the EQ bands at 9 o'clock is only correct (for starting out
before adapting to individual inputs) if that is at zero cut/boost. I don't
think I have seen any board that does not have that at high noon. Either
way, this is most definitely not appropriate. Assuming the best, there is
no correction for uneven response in instruments and mics. Every mic needs
some EQ. Each mic needs its own setting, even identical mics due to
differences in voices. Some people need a slightly different EQ than the
next. It would be extremely improbable that you would have 5 inputs needing
the same EQ, even with everybody having the same make and model mic.

Assuming the board is not some bizarre model, zero boost/cut is at 12
o'clock. Putting all the bands in cut will not be the same as running them
at 12 with less gain. The EQ bands are centered on the named frequency, not
the entire band. While far from accurate, think of a rubber band attached
to two points with a third brace in the middle and pulling it between one
end and the center brace. You get something that looks like this
__
\/

Now pull the other side also you get something like this

\/\/


the frequency response of the board set up like you saw would be something
like the following, but curved

\/\/\/

I heard a sound system that had the opposite problem. It sounded terrible.
They need a boost here, then here, then here, then here, then here, etc.,
and end up with all the bands maxed out. It sounds terrible! The best word
I can think of to describe the sound is "blech." You can't understand much
of it and can't follow along because you can't even tell what verse they
are on. The only thing that sounded clear was the drum machine and the real
drums (unamplified).

If I was a betting man I would bet a few grand that your mix sounds decent
and this other person's mix sounds dull and muddied.

Mike D.
From: Michael Dobony on 7 Feb 2010 23:37
On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 23:04:36 -0500, liquidator wrote:

> "Orlando Enrique Fiol" <ofiol(a)verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.25d955414ef97c809898ae(a)news.albasani.net...
>> DanielleOM <danielle.e(a)reply.to.group.com> wrote:
>>>My friend uses a Peavey PV10. I have a Soundcraft EFX8. Directions do
>>>point out that the mid frequency on mine is sweepable. (Something that I
>>>had either overlooked or forgotten about) I have mainly used it for solo
>>>gigs where I essentially left everything flat. Last night I substituted
>>>for
>>>some one at open mike and perhaps for the first time really had an
>>>opportunity to sit at the mixer at a live venue.
>>
>> It would be much easier to get to the heart of the matter if you email me
>> privately rather than wait for newsgroup posts to show up. On the other
>> hand,
>> if time is not of the essence in you answering this question, we can stick
>> to
>> the group. Basically, all EQ is either boost or cut, just like faders or
>> volume
>> knobs; it's just that EQ boosts or cuts specific frequencies in different
>> ways.
>> Depending on how much headroom you want to have for boosting and cutting,
>> you
>> set your EQ knobs to allow them to be turned somewhat equidistantly in
>> both
>> directions.
>>
>> Orlando
>
> Oversimplified and WRONG,
>
> Knobs are set at 12 o'clock because that is the flat response postioin, not
> for headroom reasons.
>
> The mid control does not just boost the entire mid band, like a crossover
> control would. It puts a peak in the mid response, centered around a
> selected frequency,
>
> Any position other than 12 o'clock will give an uneven response.
>
> Asking people to email you privately defeats the whole purpose of discussion
> groups.

And can not be examined by others, especially with the type of advice given
here. He may be the person in question or was taught by the same
incompetent person.
From: Orlando Enrique Fiol on 8 Feb 2010 00:15
liquidator <mikeh(a)mad.scientist.com> wrote:
>Knobs are set at 12 o'clock because that is the flat response postioin, not
>for headroom reasons.

I meant that 12:00 knob b settings provide arithmetically exact headroom in
either direction for cut and boost. We're saying the same thing.

>The mid control does not just boost the entire mid band, like a crossover
>control would. It puts a peak in the mid response, centered around a
>selected frequency,
> Any position other than 12 o'clock will give an uneven response.

Which is the entire purpose of equalization, to make certain frequencies
respond more unevenly than others.

>Asking people to email you privately defeats the whole purpose of discussion
>groups.


Danielle is clearly posting here in order to solve a problem that can be better
addressed privately and directly. If she's more interested in the phenomenon of
discussion groups, she can politely decline my offer of private email. Then
again, Danielle might be an Italian man.

Orlando
From: Denny Strauser on 8 Feb 2010 02:01
DanielleOM wrote:
>
> When I watch a friend mix I find I see all of the mixer frequency
> settings turned down to about the same spot at 9 o'clock.
>
> This seems counter intuitive to me. I keep thinking this is like just
> turning the levels down since all seem to be turned almost equally. I
> normally keep them at 12 o'clock with very minor tweaks in one direction
> or the other.
> Am I missing something here?
> Danielle

It could be a few different things. Maybe the house graphic EQ is set up
poorly, of there isn't a house EQ, and he is compensating with channel
EQ's. Maybe the console doesn't have a hi-pass filter (lo frequence
roll-off), and he is doing it with the channel strips.

It is hard to answer the question accurately without more info &,
possibly, listening to the system.

- Denny
From: Joe Kotroczo on 8 Feb 2010 03:54
On 08/02/2010 06:15, in article
MPG.25d967f04a476c039898af(a)news.albasani.net, "Orlando Enrique Fiol"
<ofiol(a)verizon.net> wrote:

> liquidator <mikeh(a)mad.scientist.com> wrote:
>> Knobs are set at 12 o'clock because that is the flat response postioin, not
>> for headroom reasons.
>
> I meant that 12:00 knob b settings provide arithmetically exact headroom in
> either direction for cut and boost. We're saying the same thing.

Except that your terminology is wrong. Phrases like "headroom for cut" don't
make any sense.

> Danielle is clearly posting here in order to solve a problem that can be
> better addressed privately and directly. If she's more interested in the
> phenomenon of discussion groups, she can politely decline my offer of private
> email. Then again, Danielle might be an Italian man.

How would the problem be better solved privately? Are you afraid of people
correcting you?

And what has the gender of the OP to do with it all?


--
Joe Kotroczo kotroczo(a)mac.com

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