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From: Alistair Maclean on 21 May 2010 07:10 On May 18, 2:56 pm, Howard Brazee <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote: > Moving into a bit of politics - my wife's reaction to illegal > immigrants is "what part of illegal don't you understand". But I am > of the strong opinion that people who say that are fooling themselves. > History shows that when people get scared (the recession, 9/11), they > try to grab their old life by blaming those with other cultures. It's > not about "illegal", and they don't believe economists who say > immigrants are a net economic gain, And they are justified in dismissing the claims of politicians that immigrants contribute so greatly to the economy. A recent politicsal statement in Britain that immigrants contributed was subsequently shown to have been over-stated by (IIRC) 900% (sorry but I can not quote any URL for proof) i.e. that the contributions made were exaggerated nine-fold. These same people are the ones who consistently deny immigration (illegal or otherwise) as being a problem and consistently under-state the extent of immigration (quoted as 150,000 since Poland joined the EU but nearer 2 million). The cynci within me would wonder whether they are ignoring the problem because the immigrants are more likely to vote for socialist leaning parties rather than for pro-business parties. Two million Labour- voting immigrants may well have been the reason why the Labour party was not wiped out at the May elections. > nor agencies that say 2/3 of the > immigrants in the U.S. are here legally. > > - James Madison
From: Anonymous on 21 May 2010 08:18 In article <6f02b837-55c8-4f8b-a48f-f67bb5ba7656(a)s41g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, Alistair Maclean <alistair.j.l.maclean(a)googlemail.com> wrote: >On May 18, 2:56?pm, Howard Brazee <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote: > >> Moving into a bit of politics - my wife's reaction to illegal >> immigrants is "what part of illegal don't you understand". ? [snip] The part that states 'any law which criminalises an activity which renders an otherwise productive member of society liable to having that productivity removed.' Yes, crossing the border and remaining in the country are crimes... and yet those who commit those crimes seem to be 'taking jobs away from Americans', indicating that (as far as employers are concerned... and We All Know what Good Citizens employers are!) with the exception of immigration status these appear to be standard, walking-around, working-type folks just like everyone else. Are legal penalties which deny the country the productivity of such people to be thought of as Sound Law? (at times folks might need to be reminded that it was illegal in the United States of America to teach certain other humans how to read or for certain otherwise competent, enfranchised adults to get married... what part of 'illegal' is not understood?) There are some who believe that no matter how counterproductive the legislation is that once something is Law it is to be obeyed as Law, there are others who believe that upholding a Bad Law is worse than breaking it. Great social debates, upsets and changes arise from the clashings of these views. [snip] >Two million Labour- >voting immigrants may well have been the reason why the Labour party >was not wiped out at the May elections. While people who have immigrated may, eventually, despite the barriers erected to prevent such things (see Swiss laws... three generations!) become citizens... once they are citizens their votes carry as much weight as the votes of those who have hanging around the same bit of dirt for centuries. Regardless of the status of their birth, once the franchise to vote is granted the weight of any single ballot is the equal of that of any other single ballot. DD
From: Pete Dashwood on 21 May 2010 08:53 docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: > In article > <6f02b837-55c8-4f8b-a48f-f67bb5ba7656(a)s41g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, > Alistair Maclean <alistair.j.l.maclean(a)googlemail.com> wrote: >> On May 18, 2:56?pm, Howard Brazee <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote: <snip> Regardless of the status of their birth, once the > franchise to vote is granted the weight of any single ballot is the > equal of that of > any other single ballot. > Except that, in Florida at least, some votes are more equal than others :-) Pete. -- "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
From: Clark F Morris on 21 May 2010 09:12 On Sat, 22 May 2010 00:53:49 +1200, "Pete Dashwood" <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: >docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: >> In article >> <6f02b837-55c8-4f8b-a48f-f67bb5ba7656(a)s41g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, >> Alistair Maclean <alistair.j.l.maclean(a)googlemail.com> wrote: >>> On May 18, 2:56?pm, Howard Brazee <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote: ><snip> > > Regardless of the status of their birth, once the >> franchise to vote is granted the weight of any single ballot is the >> equal of that of >> any other single ballot. >> > >Except that, in Florida at least, some votes are more equal than others :-) Florida was a mess with BOTH parties playing games. An investigation by the Wall Street Journal and IIRC NBC concluded that Bush got more votes than Gore. The Wall Street Journal is a conservative paper with the habit of reporting news discomforting to all ideologies. BP probably is not too happy with the current news articles there. > >Pete.
From: Anonymous on 21 May 2010 10:16
In article <85ne2vFo37U1(a)mid.individual.net>, Pete Dashwood <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: >docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: >> In article >> <6f02b837-55c8-4f8b-a48f-f67bb5ba7656(a)s41g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, >> Alistair Maclean <alistair.j.l.maclean(a)googlemail.com> wrote: >>> On May 18, 2:56?pm, Howard Brazee <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote: ><snip> > > Regardless of the status of their birth, once the >> franchise to vote is granted the weight of any single ballot is the >> equal of that of >> any other single ballot. >> > >Except that, in Florida at least, some votes are more equal than others :-) The attributions are a bit munged... but I'm not certain what you're calling a 'vote', Mr Dashwood; note that I referred to 'ballots'. DD |