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From: Tecknomage on 25 May 2010 12:01

To all on this thread...

I cam in late but you have 3 choices on this subject:

1) An external USB HD with its own power adapter.

2) A USB HD *designed* to use USB2 power
(note your system's USB port must be USB2, see your BIOS Setup)

3) A USB Adapter with its own power



I can suggest you checkout offerings at Acomdata

http://www.acomdata.com/app/stx.products.asp?cid=1

One example is their "2.5" Samurai USB/eSATA" which is "Bus Powered"
(aka via your USB2 power).


I have an older version which even includes "Nomad Mobile Desktop" OS
that I use for temporary backups for clients.

Also, if their newer external drives are like my old one, you can
order and external AC Adapter if you wish. This would be an option
required if the client system does NOT have USB2 support.


Note, Seagate (I think) also carries and external USB HD that powers
via your USB2 Port.



--
======== Tecknomage ========
Computer Systems Specialist
IT Technician
San Diego, CA
From: kony on 25 May 2010 15:34
On Mon, 24 May 2010 21:44:38 -0400, Paul <nospam(a)needed.com>
wrote:


>I'm not a laptop repair guy. I've just seen the odd picture
>of laptop components. I know they use adapters for hard drives,
>even in cases where it doesn't make a lot of sense. That's
>probably what you're seeing, is an adapter that is removable.
>
> Paul


I think they use the adapters to create a 2nd flex point
which (hopefully) decreases the stress from impacts to
reduce the chance of cracking the drive or mainboard solder
joints. Then again, a tight fit and/or padding should've
done that too.
From: ~misfit~ on 26 May 2010 21:37
Somewhere on teh intarwebs Paul wrote:
> Carl wrote:
>> Maybe you can make sense of this quote from
>> http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Ultrabay_Slim_SATA_HDD_Adapter
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> "The adapter has a black plastic grommet at the back that
>> restricts its use to the 60 series ThinkPads. Some people have
>> successfully removed this grommet with a pair of channel lock pliers,
>> or sliced it off with a Dremel after which it will fit into older
>> ThinkPads like the T40 series. This works because the adapter
>> actually bridges the SATA HDD to PATA as those older machines have
>> no SATA support.
>>
>> This has been tested with the following ThinkPads, although this is
>> obviously not supported!
>>
>> * ThinkPad T40, T40p, T41, T41p, T42, T42p, T43, T43p
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> I don't know what SATA and PATA are - only that the spec says the
>> HDD is an IDE. Regarding the above quote - note that the T42 is
>> newer than the 600 series - the quote makes it look the other way
>> around. Also, the article is about the "Ultrabay Slim" - which is
>> relevant to the T42. The "Ultraslim Bay" is for the 600 series. So
>> why does this part work correctly in the 600 series, but needs
>> modified (Dremel tool) to work with a T42? Maybe you can make sense
>> of this. I quoted the above as someone besides me thought "Dremel
>> tool" regarding that darned piece of metal/plastic - if we're
>> talking about the same thing.
>>
>
> I tried looking at pictures of the adapters.
>
> My first comment would be, about electronic adaptation.
>
> PATA, IDE, EIDE - parallel data bus, 16 bits wide.
> 40 pin connector for 3.5" hard drives or optical
> drives 40 pins for signals plus 4 for power on 2.5"
> drives = 44 pins total
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_ATA
>
> SATA - serial data bus at very high speed.
> - TX differential pair, RX differential pair
> - three ground signals for crosstalk isolation and shielding
> - results in a total of 7 pins on the data plug
> - separate 15 pin power plug, sufficient for five groups of
> three power pins
> USB - four pins, D+, D- for data, +5V and GND for power. 500mA limit.
> Higher power limit on the new USB3 standard (irrelevant to this
> discussion). .
> Now, each of those standards is completely different. But
> they make single silicon chip solutions, for going from one
> to the other. USB to SATA, USB to PATA, SATA to PATA, PATA to SATA
>
> For example, I have an adapter next to me right now, in its original
> cardboard box, that uses a Marvell 88SA8040-TBC1 to convert from PATA
> (parallel ATA, ribbon cable bus) to SATA (serial ATA).
>
> In the case of one of your adapter types, there is a rectangular
> region next to the drive, large enough to hide a printed circuit board
> with
> one of those 1/2" x 1/2" adapter chips.
>
> The various bay types, have two connectors on them. The "public"
> connector inside the bay, must adhere to an industry standard. For
> example, the
> IDE to IDE kind of bay adapter, would use a standard 44 pin connector
> inside the bay. That is so it will easily mate with an IDE 44 pin
> drive (9.5mm thick or 12.5mm thick drive, depending on generation).
>
> On the outside of the bay, I see a custom connector, and it looks to
> me like it has more pins on it (50 pins perhaps?). Since I could not find
> a pinout, it is hard to say whether the extra pins are for carrying
> power, or for some other function.
>
> In the case of the SATA drive adapter bay, the SATA drive has power
> provisions for 3.3V, 5V, 12V. The extra pins on the proprietary bay
> connector, could be used to make connections for those.
>
> Each bay, will have a particular bus on the proprietary end connector
> on the bay. Adapter chips would be used, to go from that standard,
> to whatever standard the drive is using. It is always possible,
> that they could overlay two I/O standards on the same pins, and
> switch in the kind of I/O they want on demand (based on sense pins
> indicating device type). But that would drive up the cost of the
> laptop.
>
> If your thinkwiki has info suggesting some item inter-works, you'll
> have to take that on face value. If there was more documentation,
> it might be possible to comment on what is going on there. If they
> add plastic bits, to prevent the bay from plugging in, that probably
> wasn't an accident. Some engineer did that, after examining their
> hardware portfolio, and deciding what parts would be dangerous to
> combine.

I can shed some light on this particular issue Paul. The SATA Ultrabay Slim
adapater that Carl is talking about (for some reason, he seems confused...)
is designed for, among other machines, this T60 I'm using. In fact I have
one of those adapters in the T60 by my left elbow (the best specced T60 I
have, running Win 7 Ultimate which I'm still learning).

The line of machines that adapter is designed for are natively SATA but use
a bridge chip on the planar to give a PATA connection to the bay port to
accomodate a PATA ODDs. Therefore, when you're using one of those adapters
to use a SATA drive in the bay you are in fact going through two bridge
chips. A SATA > PATA on the planar and then a PATA > SATA in the adapter.
Clumsy I know. Later ThinkPads used a SATA ODD but I believe that this
approach was used as a transitionary measure so that all the PATA ODDs /
PATA HDD adapters / Ultrabay slim batteries from T4x machines in circulation
could be re-used in the newer range. An Ultrabay Slim DVD multi-drive which
can read and write to any CD / DVD format (including DVD-RAM) wasn't a cheap
option so not being able to use it in a new machine might have put potential
ugraders off.

T4x are natively PATA, lacking the bridge chip of the later x6x machines. It
seems that the bridge chip in this adapter was designed to work in
combination with the bridge chip in the x6x machines, essentially going SATA
> PATA > SATA.

Now, while removing the grommet allows the use of the SATA Ultrabay Slim
adapter in T4x laptops I would guess that perhaps the testing that IBM /
Lenovo did during their pre-release stage threw up problems, perhaps with
certain combinations of HDD models in the adapter with the native PATA T4x
interface, causing them to add the (easilly removable) grommet to
essentially say "use in T4x machines at your own risk". It seems that
registered users at ThinkWiki (I'm one) haven't reported any problems with
it.

> While a business case could be made for having them
> all different, such that every application was custom, that could
> also drive away customers from their concept. I've seen at
> least one computer drive enclosure idea, that was so foreign
> and obnoxious that it got no traction whatsoever. So when
> pissing off customers, it *is* possible to go too far.

Indeed. The ThinkPad line is pretty much the opposite, using the same
accessories for as long as possible across different generations of machine.
Their clientele were / are largely corporate / educational (especially in
the USA) so having common 'plug-in' parts for as long as possible is a big
plus. An ODD from a 2003 T40 will fit in a T61 from early 2009 and work
perfectly well. After that they changed to the 'Serial Ultrabay Slim', doing
away with the need for the SATA > PATA bridge chip on the planar of the
laptop. However the Ultrabay slim *battery* for that 2003 T40 will still
work fine in the latest ThinkPads, and any for the foreseeable future. I
think that's pretty damn good.
--
Cheers,
Shaun.

"When we dream.... that's just our brains defragmenting" G Jackson.


From: BillW50 on 27 May 2010 07:35
In
news:fd256317-87ee-411f-ad3e-221f98ca200a(a)a16g2000vbr.googlegroups.com,
Carl typed on Mon, 24 May 2010 11:17:37 -0700 (PDT):
> On May 24, 2:10 pm, J G Miller <mil...(a)yoyo.ORG> wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 May 2010 10:51:12 -0700, Carl wrote:
>>> Seagate 80GB
>>
>> So the maximum fastest transfer rate for that will be 100 MBytes per
>> second, will it not?
>>
>> Have you considered upgrading to something newer? ;)
>>
>> 500 Gbyte 2.5 inch Western Digital Caviar Blue SATA perhaps,
>> or Seagate equivalent?
>
> No. That's a lot faster than USB 2.0 can do, and I don't have an
> eSATA port on my laptop.

Even if your laptop doesn't have an eSATA port, you can buy them in
Cardbus or ExpressCard versions.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Windows XP SP3


From: Rich Greenberg on 8 Jun 2010 16:52
In article <df27edd5-4118-4fc8-9e0b-dd095d5a6c06(a)c13g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
Carl <carl33(a)mailinator.com> wrote:
>I have an HT-Link Cardbus/PCMCIA USB 2.0 2-port card (NEC / 32-bit).
>My external hard drive w/USB adapter won't work with it, and it will
>work plugged directly into a USB port on a different laptop. (My USB
>ports got fried.) I got the card off E-Bay. My MP3 player works
>plugged into that card. The drivers for the card say "Known
>limitations: High Speed Isochronus, USB Composite Devices." (No other
>details provided.) I don't know if the hard drive adapter is
>"isochronous" or "composite." I've read there are problems with too
>little power being supplied to the drive. The cable to the drive has
>two USB plugs on one end, and it doesn't make any difference if I plug
>both of them into the Cardbus card.
>
>What card should I get? I see many different brands on E-Bay. I need
>one that supplies sufficient power for an external hard drive, and
>doesn't have any "known limitations" in the way.

Sorry for delayed reply, I had no PC for about 2 weeks and am catching
up as fast as I can.

This may be more than what you want, but I have a StarTech adapter that
will allow just about any HD to a USB port and supplies power to the HD
with a wall wart. It takes 2.5", 3.5" or 5.25" IDE or 2.5" or 3.5" SATA
drives. No model # on the box, just "USB 2.0 to IDE or SATA Adapter
cable. See www.startech.com. Cost was $30-35.


--
Rich Greenberg Sarasota, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 941 378 2097
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red, Shasta & Casey (RIP), Red & Zero, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L
Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L
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