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From: Rod Speed on 1 Mar 2010 19:00
Desk Rabbit wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Desk Rabbit wrote
>>> ClueLess wrote

>>>> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
>>>> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.

>>>> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
>>>> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
>>>> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
>>>> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
>>>> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.

>>>> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this,
>>>> bingo, all the hard disks are recognized.

>>>> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
>>>> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80
>>>> wire cable.

>>>> How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
>>>> problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")

>>>> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do

>>> And the hard drive make/model is?
>>> And the motherboard make/model is?
>>> And the BIOS version is?

>> All irrelevant given that the original hard drive isnt recognised anymore.

> Any information is useful at this point.

Wrong again.

> It may be a known problem

Bet it isnt.

> but without knowing what he's got the chances of finding out are less than zero.

Wrong again. The obvious thing to try is a another 80 wire cable and check that the
drive connectors are being plugged in the right way around if they arent polarised.


From: Rod Speed on 1 Mar 2010 19:01
Meat Plow wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 15:08:05 -0600, VanguardLH <V(a)nguard.LH>wrote:
>
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>>> Signalling wise, there is no difference between a 40- and 80-wire
>>>> IDE cable.
>> <which is qualified in a following paragraph regarding cable select>
>>>
>>> Wrong. 80 wire cables are usually cable select cables, 40 wire
>>> cables usually are not.
>>
>> Get an ohmmeter to test.
>>
>> http://www.unitechelectronics.com/ide44pinout.gif
>> (this is the drive header, same pinout as for mobo header; remember
>> to mirror the image for ribbon connector)
>>
>> Cable select cables require a pin (#28) not be connected on one of
>> the device-side connectors. I already mentioned in my prior post
>> how this can be done. The host adapter grounds this signal (i.e.,
>> when connected, the device sees a ground line). If pin 28 is
>> connected at the device (i.e., the device sees this signal is
>> grounded), it is the master device. If this pin is open (floating),
>> that device is the slave.
>>
>> Just get a continuity tester to determine in pin 28 is open on one
>> of the device connectors on the ribbon cable. I have 80-wire,
>> 40-pin cables that have pin 28 connected and some where it is open.
>> I have not seen a predominance of one or the other to claim a
>> "usual" configuration, and because of this is why I test. It all
>> depends on who manufactured the cable. For example, the
>> manufacturer might want that same 80-wire cable to be usable in
>> 40-wire cable setups so they feed pin 28 to all connectors. The same
>> holds true as to whether the connector or shroud are polarized with
>> a tang or notch, if depolarized by the absense of a tang or having
>> notches on both sides of the shroud, or if pin 20 is used as a
>> polarizing key (by pin 20 missing in header and blocked or solid in
>> the connector). You have to look. For cable-select or not enforced
>> in the manufacture of a 80-wire ribbon cable, you have to check with
>> a continuity check.
>>
>> If the connectors on the ribbon cable are color coded, I would
>> suspect cable-select was enforced through the physical connections
>> as follows:
>>
>> - Blue: Motherboard. Pin 28 connected.
>> - Black: Master device. Pin 28 connected.
>> - Gray: Slave device. Pin 28 not connected.
>>
>> But I'd still check pin 28 with a continuity tester to make sure.
>> You may not have cable-enforced cable-select with some 80-wire
>> ribbon cables (i.e., pine 28 goes to all connectors) when you want
>> to use cable-select on the device jumpers. You may not want
>> cable-enforced cable-select if you are using jumpers on the devices
>> to configure them as master and slave. Whether you have a
>> cable-select cable is something you should really test.
>
> Dell has been using Cable Select for at least 11 years.
> Long before 80 wire and UDMA 5 came to fruition.

And so did Compaq.


From: Desk Rabbit on 1 Mar 2010 19:37
On 02/03/2010 00:00, Rod Speed wrote:
> Desk Rabbit wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Desk Rabbit wrote
>>>> ClueLess wrote
>
>>>>> Here is a strange problem, when I connect my hard disk using the 80
>>>>> wire cable my computer does not recognize it.
>
>>>>> It happened this way. I had to check another hard disk and so I
>>>>> swapped the disks (IDE0) and found it was not recognized. Then I
>>>>> connected the original hard disk and it was also not recognized. I
>>>>> tried both the IDE0 and IDE1 channels with the same result. I tried
>>>>> also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go.
>
>>>>> Then I found an old 40 wire cable and when connected with this,
>>>>> bingo, all the hard disks are recognized.
>
>>>>> No pins broken, no hardware damage. All the cablea are in good
>>>>> condition. In fact the machine for years worked with only the 80
>>>>> wire cable.
>
>>>>> How does this happen? This is just a banana motherboard and the
>>>>> problem is in the bios stage itself. (bios says "Not installed")
>
>>>>> If any of you can give me an explanation or a solution please do
>
>>>> And the hard drive make/model is?
>>>> And the motherboard make/model is?
>>>> And the BIOS version is?
>
>>> All irrelevant given that the original hard drive isnt recognised anymore.
>
>> Any information is useful at this point.
>
> Wrong again.

Without facts and information ant diagnostic is just pure guesswork.

>
>> It may be a known problem
>
> Bet it isnt.
Could be, maybe not. 50-50 chance of guessing correctly. 100% success
with correct information.

>
>> but without knowing what he's got the chances of finding out are less than zero.
>
> Wrong again. The obvious thing to try is a another 80 wire cable and check that the
> drive connectors are being plugged in the right way around if they arent polarised.

I strongly suggest you go back and read the OP's message fully before
you dig yourself a deeper hole than you are already in. I'll draw your
attention to the particular sentence which says:

"I tried also other hard disks as well other 80 wire cables, still no go."

From: VanguardLH on 1 Mar 2010 19:51
Rod Speed wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>> Signalling wise, there is no difference between a 40- and 80-wire IDE cable.
>
>> <which is qualified in a following paragraph regarding cable select>
>
> So that claim is just plain wrong. There is in fact that very real difference.
>
>>> Wrong. 80 wire cables are usually cable select cables, 40 wire cables usually are not.
>
>> Get an ohmmeter to test.
>
> Dont need one. I use the ATA standard.
>
> <reams of you proving what I said flushed where it belongs>

Good luck trying to configure 2 hard drives to use cable select when the
80-wire cable that you happen to use has pin 28 connected on both device
connectors.
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